Born about in Welles, Lincolnshire, England
Ancestors 
Daughter of John Welles
and Maud (Ros) de Welles
Sister of
Margery (Welles) Scrope and John (Welles) de Welles
Wife of
James Butler
— married
before 17 Jun 1386 in England
Descendants 
Mother of
James Butler and Richard Butler
Died
at about age 41
in Kilkenny, Ireland
Profile last modified
| Created 12 Jun 2011
This page has been accessed 6,953 times.
| Date Estimated based on historical events and/or calculated by ages of other family members. | Note: Birth year of "about 1356" is a guess based on the 1361 death of the 4th Lord Welles (#Richardson) and her siblings' 1350 & 1352 birth years (in WikiTree). This profile previously had a birth year of 1365 and was attached as a daughter of the 5th Lord Welles (see Disputed Parents section below). |
Biography
Anne de Welles was born 1360 in Gainsby, Lincolnshire, England (or in 1359 or about 1 July 1371 or 1388 in Gainsby or Welles, Lincolnshire, England[citation needed].
Anne married James le Boteler (or Butler), 3rd Earl of Ormond.[1][2]
Lady Anne Butler died[3] Nov. 13, 1397, Kilkenny, County Kilkenny, Ireland.[citation needed]
Parents
Richarson shows Anne Welles as the daughter of Sir John de Welle, 4th Lord Welles, by his wife Maud de Roos (or Ros), and Anne's brother John as born at Conisholme, Lincolnshire in 1352. The 4th Lord Welles died in 1461.[1]
The complete peerage has Anne as the da. of John (De Welles), Lord Welles, by Maud, da. of William (de Ros), Lord Ros.[4]
Wikipedia also says she was daughter of John, 4th Lord Welles and his wife, Maud de Ros,[5]
Burke's Extinct Peerages,[2] which is an unreliable source, has her as a daughter of John, 5th Lord Welles, son of John (4th Lord Welles) and Maud de Roos:
- The 5th Lord Welles "m. Margaret, or Eleanor, dau. of John, Lord Mowbray, and had two daus., Margaret, m 1st, John de Huntingfield; 2ndly, Stephen, 2nd Lord Scrope of Masham[6] and Anne, m to James, 3rd Earl of Ormode.
NOTE: John, 5th Baron Welles m.1 Eleanor de Mowbray. They had 2 known children: Eleanor Welles; and son Eudes de Welles, who predeceased his father. Anne's parents were changed from John de Welles, 5th Lord Welles and his wife Eleanor Mowbray to John, 4th Lord Welles and his wife Maud de Roos. Richardson shows that John and Maud had three children: John, Margery, and Anne, who married Butler. Richardson shows only Eudes and Eleanor as the children of the 5th Lord Welles by his wife Eleanor Mowbray. (#Richardson)
Sources
- ROYAL ANCESTRY by Douglas Richardson Vol. II page 49-50
- ↑ 1.0 1.1 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham, (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), Vol IV, p 494 ROOS #9; p 496 ROOS #9iv.; p331 WELLES #10
- ↑ 2.0 2.1 "Sir Bernard Burke (1866). A Genealogical History of the Dormant: Abeyant, Forfeited, and Extinct Peerages of the British Empire. Harrison p 569" (cited in Wikipedia article on the 5th Baron Welles), see p 571
- ↑ in or after 1396 [citation needed]
- ↑ Cokayne, George Edward, The complete peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom, extant, extinct, or dormant, Vol. 10 (London: The St. Catherine Press, 1945) Oakham to Richmond. pp. 122-123 FamilySearch Books [accessed 29 December 2021].
- ↑ Wikipedia: James Butler, 3rd Earl of Ormond
- ↑ see also Lords of Scrope of Masham
- See also:
- Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Shippard Jr., 1999, Ancestral Roots of Certain American Colonists, 7th Edition, Reference: 26 May 2003, Page: 7-32
- Eileen McKinnon-Suggs, Our Kingdom Come (Ancestry link)
- Frederick Lewis Weis, additions by Walter Lee Sheppard Jr, The Magna Charta Sureties 1215, 5th Edition, 1999, 26 May 2003
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www.cga.ct.gov%2Fhco%2Fbooks%2FHistory_of_the_Welles_Family.pdf
It doesn't mention Anne, at first glance. It does seem to mention a second wife Margerie for John the 5th Baron, presumably after Eleanor late in his life; which is supported by Burke's ambiguity about the name(s) of his wive(s). Or, they are both in error for the same reason, relying on some previously-confused anonymous antiquary they don't cite.
edited by Isaac Taylor
I notice Find A Grave features in the bio. The FAG site and genealogy claims on it cannot be relied upon as sources for WikiTree. Research clues, perhaps! But we can't be the best online user-generated genealogy site if we quote (blockquote even) from the others, or we just go around in circles on the internet (with the internet quoting itself); rather than relying on historical evidence, contemporary primary sources, and reputable professional (or at least peer-reviewed) secondary sources which synthesize citedd primary sources etc.
Of the currently-listed sources for this profile, I see Richardson, Burke, and Weis. Can we clarify these are the only sources we have?
May I ask the currently listed Ancestry, "Ancestry link", & Webber MyHeritage.com site links all be removed from this profile entirely as these cannot be sources for WikiTree profiles. Thus, any in-line citations referencing these non-sources are un-supported claims. Similarly, Scroope.net is behind some weird anti-virus registration login screen and generally looks broken and sketchy. Could we remove that and not cite it? We also reference Wikipedia in the sources, which I understand to be a no-no; Wikipedia can't be a source for WikiTree, right? Or it's wikis going around in circles rather than pointing to authoritative facts.
Respectfully,
edited by Isaac Taylor
Can we aim higher?
Respectfully,