Unknown ferch Robert (abt. 1295)

Born about 1295 in Treffgarn, Haverfordwest, Pembroke, Wales

Descendants

Problems/Questions Profile manager: Liz Shifflett [send private message]

Biography

Daughter of Robert de Val, Lord of Trefgarn, said to have married Llywelyn ab Owain and had by him two sons: Owain and Thomas.^[1]

Research Notes

Married: Llywelyn married in 1308.^[2]

Birth: If marriage in 1308 is correct, that would put her birth c1295. It would also mean that her son Tomos (married 1343, according to the same source)^[2] would have been born no earlier than 1308 (his WikiTree profile says b c1300, d 1343). Darrell Wolcott shows Thomas born 1310.^[3]

Wolcott has Thomas's daughter Elen born 1340, Thomas born 1310, and Llewelyn born 1280.^[3] This presents a problem, since Cawley shows Llewelyn died "before 3 May 1309" (although, with a 9-month pregnancy, son Thomas could have been born 1310). Cawley also shows Thomas born 1298/99 and his brother Owain born 1297/98.^[1]

Elen Bar: This profile (for daughter of Robert de Val) is set as rejected with Eléonore de Bar, based on information found in Cawley's entry for Llywelyn:

'Dwnn's 1597 Visitations of Wales records that "Llywelyn ab Owein" married "Elen doughter to William de Barry"[581]. Bridgeman states that "the Heralds employed to draw up the pedigree of King Henry VII recorded Llywelyn's wife as "the daughter of William de Comte de Barr by Elinor the daughter of King Edward I" (which, if correct, would mean that she was Eléonore de Bar, daughter of Henri [III] Comte de Bar & [his wife Eleanor of England]) but he dismisses this possibility.'^[1]

From Bar-31's profile (accessed 23 November 2019):

"Douglas Richardson, in a post of 3 Aug 2016 on Gen-Medieval, states that Eleanor as a daughter of Henri III, Count of Bar, and Eleanor of England, is entirely fictitious. Henri and Eleanor had only two children: Edouard and Joan (or Jeanne)."^{[citation needed][4]}

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2} Charles Cawley. Entry for Llywellyn (died 1309), "Medieval Lands": A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families © by Charles Cawley, hosted by Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG). See also WikiTree's source page for MedLands.
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1} "Ancestors" chart in Wikipedia's article for Owain Glyndŵr (accessed 23 November 2019); no sources apparent and wife's name not mentioned.
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1} Darrell Wolcott. The Ancestry of Owain Glyndwr (accessed 23 November 2019).
4. ↑ No link to the post was included.

Source citations from Bar-31:

• Wikipedia: Henry III, Count of Bar
• Wikipedia: Eleanor of England, Countess of Bar
• Cawley (citing Bridgeman)
• http://www.thepeerage.com/p10457.htm#i104562