Rhys Foel ap Rhys Goch (abt. 1240)

Born about 1240 in Gilfachwen Isle, Llandysul, Cardigan, Wales

Ancestors

Descendants

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Biography

Rhys Foel ap Rhys Goch^[1]

Research Notes

Birth in Wales in 1240 is not included in the source listed for the profile prior to 12 July 2023 - Wolcott's article, "The Children of Lord Rhys".^[2] A source for birth place is also needed - "Gilfachwen Isle, Llandysul, Cardigan, Wales" does not appear to be either his mother's home (Dehaubarth) or his father's ("of Glen-nedd").

Removed death information from datafields: 1340, age 100, is unlikely; "probengland" (changed to England) has no basis to be found in the lone source listed for the profile prior to 12 July 2023.^[2]

From that source, Wolcott's article, "The Children of Lord Rhys":^[2]

"16. Rhys Gochyn, born c. 1175. This man in known only from the medieval pedigree manuscripts, where his son Rhys Goch (c. 1205) is cited as the husband of Gwen (c. 1220) ferch Angharad (c. 1200) ferch Hywel Sais[33]. This Gwen was a daughter of his (Rhys Goch's) first-cousin who had married a grandson of Sir Roger of Powys[34]."

• [33] [33] Pen. 128, 86b
• [34] Pen. 131, 209

Extrapolating from the Wolcott article, one would expect the following to lead to this profile:

• Rhys ap Gruffydd (1132-1197)
• Rhys Gochyn (born c1175) - youngest son of Rhys ap Gruffydd by a mistress^[2] (a profile for him is not attached to Rhys's, as of 11 July 2023)
• Rhys Goch (born c1205), son of Rhys Gochyn^[2]
• Rhys Foel (if the Rhys Foel of this profile, born c1240) - no Rhys Foel mentioned in Wolcott's article^[2]

However, the WikiTree profiles linked to this one lead to Ellyw ferch Rhys Gryg (1183-), not Rhys Gochyn. In WikiTree (as of 12 July 2023), we have

• Richard ab Einion (abt.1175-abt.1270), married Ellyw (1183-) ferch Rhys Gryg ap Rhys ap Gruffydd
• Rhys (Rhys Goch) ap Richard (1200-1300)
• Rhys Foel ap Rhys Goch (1240-1340)
  • husband of Llian (ferch Cynhaethwy) gwraig Rhys Foel ap Rhys Goch (abt.1265-1366)

Which appears to follow Bartrum's "Einion ap Gollwyn 2" chart,^[1] which shows

• Richard ab Einion of Glen-nedd, married Ellwy ferch Rhys Gryg^[3]
• Rhys Goch, son of Richard ab Einion, father of
• Rhys Foel, married "Llian f, Cynhaethwy" (noting Godwin 1 for Cynhaethwy).^[4]

Godwin 1 shows Llian's father Cynhaethwy "L. 1183-1198", his father Herbert living in 1207, and Herbert's father Godwin d. 1199.^[4]

If we assume that Llian was born c1190 and Rhys Foel was her first husband, we can put the marriage at about 1205 - which does not work at all with 1240 for his birth year. His birth location per this profile as of 12 July - "Gilfachwen Isle, Llandysul, Cardigan, Wales" - also does not make sense. His grandmother was the granddaughter of the Prince of Dehaubarth. Rhys Foel's father was "of Glen-nedd", which is in Glamorgan, according to his father's WikiTree profile (as of 12 July).

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1} Bartrum: Einion ap Gollwyn 2 (accessed 12 July 2023).
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 2.5} Darrell Wolcott, "The Children of Lord Rhys" (accessed 11 July 2023).
3. ↑ Bartrum: Rhys ap Tewdwr 8 (accessed 12 July 2023).
4. ↑ ^{4.0 4.1} Bartrum: Godwin 1 (accessed 12 July 2023).

• The Bartrum Project, digitization of "Welsh Genealogies AD 300- 1500" by Peter C. Bartrum (mirrored from the defunct Cadair site by Geni: Bartrum Genealogical Project - free login required to access the charts). See additional information about Cadair in G2G.

The WikiTree profile Rhys-36 was created through the import of FISCUS Family Tree.ged on Jun 6, 2011 by Liisa Small. See the Changes page for the details of edits by Liisa and others.