FindAGrave copy-and-paste citation format changed

Question

The citations supplied on FindAGrave memorials, until recently, had just (www.findagrave.com : accessed 1 January 2021), or the like. Standard practice was to remove the URL because it created a hyperlink from the webpage that would compete with the one created by the Wikitree template.

Today, I went to copy a citation and observed that the link was now directly to the memorial page. Pasting it into Wikitree, it did not automatically generate a hyperlink. It is a little simpler not to have to strip out that link. So is it now reasonable to leave the link and then just add the template to create the hyperlink (and remove the dumb extra space before the final period in the citation)?

Comments

I think that the link doesn't work because it does not begin with https://. When I add https://, the link becomes active (it did for me, at least).

It's a good move, in my opinion, by Findagrave.com. But it would be a better move to include the https:// in the link.

As far as the Findagrave template is concerned, I always added it to the end of the citation. My only alteration of the original citation was to add bold formatting for the name of the memorialized individual.

That is correct - I do not follow "SOP" for the Findagrave template!

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I don't either, because I remove the extra space and because I only cite findagrave if there is a photo or else a transcription of a record placed on the memorial. When I do I add to the front the citation information for the photo or transcription. A couple of times I've had someone come through a WT profile and remove that extra citation information, I guess thinking the SOP is a requirement, and so I just quietly reverted the change.

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I have been adding https:// to some of those new-style findagrave citations. It takes less typing than adding the Findagrave template.

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I think the template gives a neater look, rather than a raw url.

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Is the template what triggers suggestions? I’m not a fan of my FG suggestions, which are mostly false, but I know others like it. So if there is altered “standard guidance” concerning the new format, maybe it should still include the template?

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I think that suggestions can get triggered pretty much any time findagrave is mentioned, but I do not have the details.

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If a Find a Grave citation or a citation for the Find a Grave site in included in a profile and it is for a 'relative' or someone, other than the profile person, it will generate a Suggestion, unless the template is added with the sameas=no parameter because that tells the system to not compare the Find a Grave information to the profile.

Many family search citations do not include an ID, so that will generate a suggestion. Frequently, you can't find the Find a Grave record.

If there are multiple Find a Grave records and they are merged, a Suggestion will be generated if you have the 'merged away' Find a Grave ID in your profile. When that suggestion is seen, it is easy to copy the correct citation into the profile, so that it is accurate.

If multiple profiles on wikitree are using the same Find a Grave ID, it normally means that wikitree has duplicate profiles, unless one of the profiles is not for the person in Find a Grave. Either the Wikitree profiles need to be merged, the Find A Grave pages need to be merged,  or the template needs to be added to the wikitree profile that has the duplicate ID but is not for the person being mentioned.

If the Find a Grave url changes, as has happened in the past, the Find a Grave templates will work without changing the profiles because the 'behind the scenes' workings of the template will have the needed changes made so the link works without changes required to the profiles.

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If the Find a Grave url changes, as has happened in the past, the Find a Grave templates will work without changing the profiles because the 'behind the scenes' workings of the template will have the needed changes made so the link works without changes required to the profiles.

commented by Linda Peterson

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This is why I won't use the url, but will continue to spend those few extra seconds to add the template. 

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Personally, I will continue to strip out the URL and add the WikiTree FindAGrave template for the reasons cited above by Linda and Melanie.

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Chip/Melanie, until the GEDCOM export converts templates into full URL/citations, then you're removing the part that tells someone using that downloaded GEDCOM how to find the info. I'm doing both for now until that gets resolved, so that the citation for that data won't be lost if the site were to go under before it gets fixed.

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Jonathan, unfortunately for someone using Gedcom exports from wikitree, there is quite a bit of information that can be lost by using any template, not just find a grave. The recommendation was to remove the find a grave url when the template was added because it caused suggestions. There are templates for 1776, DAR, SAR sites and information, as a couple of other examples.  None of those may convert in a Gedcom export also. I have seen plenty of profiles with information in templates that is not in the actual profiles.  I don't think majority of people are adding information to wikitree site, in anticipation of whether it will export properly to a Gedcom.

Answer 1

Some months ago I wrote a bookmarklet to automatically fill in the WikiTree template when you are on FindAGrave:

https://github.com/FlominatorTM/WikiTree/blob/master/Bookmarklets/FindAGrave.js

If you would like to have additional stuff from the website filled in, just tell me what or show me a sample profile.

Kind regards from Black Forest

Flo

Answer 2

Yet another reason why it would be best if the WikiTree Find A Grave template created a full citation, and not just a minimal one-line reference to the memorial page.

Comments

That would not be approved for use, since that would make it a source template.

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The reason for using the find a grave citation is to see the information on that source at the time - name, dates, cemetery, location, contributor and accessed date. The information can change and merged all the time. Adding the template provides the link to their page.

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And it was never explained why there couldn't be a source template. Just a bunch of hand waving. They could be approved if there was a decision to do so.

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And it was never explained why there couldn't be a source template.

There were quite a few discussion around this at the time, but what it came down to is that this would now add a new way of adding sources, and everyone would have to be well versed in both list citations, inline citations, and then template generated citations in order to collaborate on profiles. In short, it added undue complications.

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The irony of all of that, is that these templates could make sourcing and citation formatting easier for most people, but it was thought that different methods would make it more confusing. We have a Help system to show people how to do these things. Additionally, these discussions are now several years old. They should be revisited.

Answer 3

Standard practice was to remove the URL because it created a hyperlink from the webpage that would compete with the one created by the Wikitree template.

I know this was a hot topic a few months back, but the format provided by Find A Grave in the past was correct as copy/pasted (with the extra findagrave website link). I know many members removed this extra link, but it was not needed, especially when the template was added to the citation. So the guidelines on using the template will not change, but will be modified slightly to accommodate the new citation format.

When given the following citation:

Find a Grave, database and images (www.findagrave.com/memorial/110540273/henry-h.-harris : accessed 26 April 2021), memorial page for Henry H. Harris (27 Aug 1856–28 Aug 1922), Find a Grave Memorial ID 110540273, citing Tubbs Cemetery, Kings Mill, Walker County, Alabama, USA ; Maintained by Diona Dickerson (contributor 46857758) .

You can modify this to following:

Find a Grave, database and images (www.findagrave.com/memorial/110540273/henry-h.-harris : accessed 26 April 2021), memorial page for Henry H. Harris (27 Aug 1856–28 Aug 1922), {{FindAGrave|110540273}}, citing Tubbs Cemetery, Kings Mill, Walker County, Alabama, USA ; Maintained by Diona Dickerson (contributor 46857758) .

(Note: the bold is where the citation was modified to include the WikiTree template).

Comments

Thank you, Steve, for this explanation. The find-a-grave template was one of the first things I learned in the PIP Voyage and it served me well while working on 571 suggestions during the CAT this past weekend.

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I began removing the URLs (granted it was before this recent change) because profiles without a matching FindAGrave Memorial that used the FindAGrave template, even with "sameas=no" were generating "Suggestion 571."

Aleš Trtnik wrote: "Problem is that URL to FindAGrave still exists. Just remove the URL (bold green part) and it should work."

He was referring to the old "https://www.findagrave.com". Now, perhaps this is no longer the case with the new full URL, but do we know for sure? I may have to experiment.

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Chip, that is a very old comment and was subsequently fixed/reworked. So while it was the advice at the time, it has no longer been needed to remove that link since late 2019 or very early 2020.

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OK, Steve. In that case I will adhere to what you've recommended above from now on. Thanks for the clarification.