Were the Irish and English ever confused in census records?

Question

Hi all,

I have a question for all of you. In looking for my May ancestors, I have had troubles that I have often come here to clear up. So you all are tired of me talking about this side I am sure haha. Anyway, I am looking into my great-great uncle and it just occurred to me that he may have considered himself English as he was 3 when they moved and spent his formative years in England. Should I look into records that state he is English?

Does this make sense to look for?

Comments

Michael,

I am positive that the Irish and English were never confused in census records.  They just painted the doors of their houses green or orange to make sure the census takers knew who they were.

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He can't have been unaware that his parents were Irish.

What often happens in cases like that, though not always, is that kids grow up with the local accent and speak very differently from their parents.  The accent and dialect of Dewsbury was very different from standard English (like, you'd need subtitles).

Then he would have arrived in America with an accent that was generic-foreign to Americans but very non-Irish to the Irish community.

People often feel they have a choice of how they identify themselves and give whatever origin they prefer.  Strict accuracy was rarely top priority.

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I have lived in England and in Ireland and I can assure you it isn't as simple as it may seem.  I don't have any Irish ancestors but as a citizen of Ireland I often identify myself as Irish on forms.  In the last census form I gave both nationalities.  When I lived in England I knew people there born of Irish parents who insisted they were Irish though they had never lived in Ireland, there were others who insisted they were English even though their parents were Irish.  It largely depends on whether or not a person or their parents has a strong sense of cultural identity with their native or adopted country.  On the question of accent it is also a matter of what one is used to hearing, I am taken for English when in Ireland and Irish when in England, my friend who was Irish and lived in Dublin until she was 14 but then in England for over 40 years was always considered Irish in England, but when she returned to Ireland everyone thought she was English!

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Gaile Connolly, came across this recently. its wonderfully silly. We may have to repaint our door (it is now purple) to match our multicultural heritage. I'm thinking green and orange diagonal stripes. Or perhaps checker board. or maybe just a "muddy paws" mix of the two which would please the dogs enormously.

Cheers, my friend!

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Cheers and a Long, long Giggle, Dorothy Coakley!

Answer 1

Bernard May

England and Wales Census, 1871

Name: Bernard May

Event Type: Census

Event Date: 1871

Gender: Male

Age: 11

Relationship to Head of Household: Son

Birthplace: Ireland

Schedule Type: Household

Registration District: Dewsbury

Sub-District: Dewsbury

Parish: Dewsbury

County: Yorkshire (West Riding)

Household Role Gender Age Birthplace

Bryan May Self M 35 Ireland

Bridget May Wife F 32 Ireland

James May Son M 15 Ireland

John May Son M 13 Ireland

Bernard May Son M 11 Ireland

Thomas May Son M 9 Dewsbury, Yorkshire

Patrick May Son M 5 Dewsbury, Yorkshire

Edward May Son M 3 Dewsbury, Yorkshire

Mary May Daughter F 1 Dewsbury, Yorkshire

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England and Wales Census, 1871

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Citing this Record

"England and Wales Census, 1871," index and images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KZGJ-DXZ : accessed 23 April 2015), Bernard May in household of Bryan May, Dewsbury, Yorkshire (West Riding), England; from "1871 England, Scotland and Wales census," database and images, findmypast (http://www.findmypast.com : n.d.); citing PRO RG 10, folio 129, p. 27, Dewsbury registration district, Dewsbury subdistrict, ED 11, household 108, The National Archives, Kew, Surrey; FHL microfilm 

 

The next four siblings after Bernard May, were born in England. 

 

Going back to very early times, the May surname is thought to be midieval English with a liklihood of a Norman French introduction. 

 

May

This ancient and interesting surname with the various spellings of May, Le May, Maye, Mayes, Mays, Mayze, Mayzes, Mey, Meys, Lemay and no doubt others as well, is of early medieval English origins, but probably from a Norman French introduction...

Read more: http://www.surnamedb.com/Surname/May#ixzz3YATv0XMH

 

Answer 2

I have a great great grandfather who had an Irish son and daughter whom emmigrated to the USa and in the census records their they recorded their mother and father as being from Ireland and England respectively. However this was not the case for every census. Also I  have a friend in the US whose has ancestors who were recorded on the census as being Irish but were in fact not Irish at all. They had recorded that they spoke Gaelic. There are many mistakes in census records including Irish census records, some diliberate and some genuine, for example ages. I have a relative whom is kate Dunne a granddaugther in 1901 but Kate Willams in 1911 in the Irish census ever though her mother did not marry her real father and they never adopted her. Her children never found out that the grandfather they thought they had was not in fact a grandfather at all until both were dead. So follow your instincts and see were it leads.