Can I get suggestions as to the Cookes of Westburton, Sussex, England?

Question

Greetings.

This issue: the timelines of the pedigrees in the Visitations are WAY off. Case in point: Robert Cooke of Carswell, Oxfordshire.

He made his will 5 Aug 1548, probated 28 Apr 1551.

He names his wife Elizabeth, eldest son and heir Thomas, and sons Allan and Nicholas. ALL sons are not yet 21.

He devised the "manor of West burton in the counttie of Sussex called the Hall Place" to Elizabeth. She was a DREWE form Oxfordshire.

In 1579 a nuncupative will is presented for Robert Cooke, and in 1580 Elizabeth Young alias Cooke makes her will. She names her sons Allan and Nicholas. NOTE: Viz of Sussex shows eldest son Thomas as "ob coelebs" (died unmarried without heirs).

Robert is supposed to be the son of Edward-Edmund Cooke and Miss Umpton, and grandson of Richard Cooke who married Margaret Hall of "Hall Place".

The Histories say that "Richard and Margaret were married in the late 16th C and built Cooke Place/Hall Place about 1588"............??!!

If I estimate what SHOULD be the birth dates for Robert, his father Edward-Edmund, and his grandfather Richard, I am back into the 1400s. Remember: none of Robert's sons were yet 21years in Aug 1548, so they had to have been born between 1528-1548. That pushes Robert's birth back to 1500-1520ish.

What is going on here?

IF I could find dates for Edward-Edmund, or for "Miss Umpton's brother, Sir Thomas", I may figure this out.

Jim Cooke

Answer 1

Whilst the Visitation information has often been very helpful, there are so many errors where the wrong family member is listed, generations omitted and so on, that I don't now add profiles from them in the absence of primary sources. Where there is a discrepancy in dates stated or implied by other sources, I would use them and offer those based on the Visitation merely as a Research Note.

Comments

ahhh, a WESTON......It seems your lot mrd into this Cooke mess back then as well.

Yes, understood. I have, in fact, found many errors in "assigned names", particularly, in the Pedigrees. In fact, I have been able to prove from John Cooke(d1694) back to Thomas Cooke (d1573) with IPMs, Willis, marriages, death info...IOW, traditional methods.

It's a shame that some of the very sources used to claim Arms are so riddled with errors.

Jim

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No answer but this series of comments at  https://groups.google.com/g/soc.genealogy.medieval/c/B5biM3GXs2Q mentions inconsistencies  with the Cooke pedigrees in the published Sussex Visitation. 

Answer 2

I cannot really sort out your problems, but I would have little doubt that the "Sir Thomas Umpton of Oxfordshire" mentioned by the Sussex visitation is this person: Thomas Unton (abt.1480-1533) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Unton-12 . The family name appears fairly indifferently as Unton and Umpton, and he was described as "of Minster Lovell" [in Oxfordshire] in 1528, although in his own will he describes himself as of Wadley in the parish of Faringdon in Berkshire.

No sister of that Sir Thomas appears to be known to WikiTree or the Berkshire visitations, but that hardly precludes her existence.

It may be of interest however that Sir Thomas Unton leaves a bequest to "my wife's sister's son" Thomas Cockes; and his widow Elizabeth leaves black gowns to "my nephewe Cooke" and his wife. You can find details of the wills and more Unton genealogy in the book "The Unton Inventories", by J. G. Nichols, which you can easily find online. The original wills were proved in PCC.

The Sussex visitation is clearly implying that Edmond Cooke's wife was a Miss Umpton/Unton, but if what was really known was that Sir Thomas Unton was his wife's brother, that might well mean wife's brother-in-law. I suppose that would make her a Hyde.

I can't claim any real knowledge of these people, so you will want to check carefully. When you say "Carswell, Oxfordshire", do you mean Carswell in the parish of Buckland, which has been in Oxfordshire since 1974 but was in Berkshire in all previous time? You might want to tag your question with "Berkshire" if so. I note that the Sussex visitation describes Robert Cooke's wife as "of Wiltshire" too.