Hubert (Munchensy) de Munchensy

Born [date unknown] in Normandie, France

Descendants

Died before 1117 in Old Abingdon Abbey, Berkshire, England

Biography

Note: Complete Peerage makes a special remark about this family:^[1] (This is not the only Domesday lord with a problem like this.)

There is ample evidence of the existence of successive heads of this family in England from the time of Domesday; but exactly how many Huberts there were before 1164 and their interrelationships remain matter of conjecture.

CP's description of the first Hubert:

HUBERT DE MUNCHENSY (de Monte Caniso) in 1086 held Wyverstone in Suffolk of the King in chief, and of Robert Malet Bromeswell, Staverton and Edwardstone, which he made his chief seat, in Norfolk; in Essex he held Stanstead. Hubert de Munchensy was the first witness to the charter of Robert Malet founding the priory of Eye, to which Hubert gave his land at Yaxley. Hubert de Munchensy was a benefactor to Thetford Abbey, and witnessed a charter of the founder of that house, which was confirmed by the King, probably in September 1107. [Complete Peerage IX:411, (transcribed by Dave Utzinger)]

In her listing of Domesday Book people Keats-Rohan refers to him as Hubert De Montecanisio, and describes him as an "important Domesday tenant of Robert Malet and also a minor tenant-in-chief in Suffolk". His descendants (or at least his successors) improved their status in England, and became barons. Keats-Rohan has suggested that Hubert might be related to his overlord's wife.^[2]

Origins. Hubert's second name comes from Mont Canisy (modern postcode 14910 Benerville-sur-Mer) a hamlet with a hill, right on the coast just south of the mouth of the Seine. (Keats-Rohan was mistaken to say that it is in Douvres-la-Délivrande, near Caen.^[3])^[4]

In the words of Keats-Rohan it was apparently this Domesday lord who "gave the manor of Yaxley to Robert's priory of Eye at the time of foundation (Eye Cart., 1), and was also a benefactor of Thetford Priory (Mon. Ang. iii, 149, 151)." ^[3]

In 1115, it seems to be that a new Hubert, possibly a son of the Domesday Hubert, who gave Edwardstone church and 2/3 of the tithes of Staverton and Stanstead to Abingdon Abbey. It was probably this Hubert who gave to Castleacre Priory 2/3 of his tithes of Clay and Holkham. Complete Peerage points out: "The feudal importance of the family was increased by a grant from Henry I of some of the fees of Godric Dapifer" during the time of this second Hubert.^[1] However note that Danielo says that:^[5]

Hubert de Mont-Canisy’s donation of Edwardstone church in 1115 has no witness named Hubert (or indeed Warin or Gilbert), contrary to what is said in Domesday People. Only Roger and Geoffrey, the two sons of [Hubert] Mont-Canisy are named (his third son, Hugh, was surely young at that time).

But Hubert was certainly mentioned as the original grantor in several documents including two records in the Historia of Abingdon itself.^[6]

Danielo, like Complete Peerage, believes that there was a second Hubert by around 1115, not the Domesday Hubert. One reason for this reasoning is that we know from later confirmations that a Hugh, the son of a Hubert lived until 1187. It has even been argued that Godric's own son named Hubert took up the surname Munchensy, Danielo is a recent example, who proposes that Godric married a daughter of the Domesday Hubert, making the second Hubert a grandson of the first, rather than a son.^[1][5]

Wives and children

It is important to note that Keats-Rohan combines the Domesday Hubert with his successor of 1115, making her report of the wives and children wrong compared to other accounts. Peter Stewart for example has stated that "Keats-Rohan evidently conflated father and son, Huberts I and V as Fowler numebred [sic] them, at some point in her research but not throughout".^[7]

G.H. Fowler proposed the following family for the Domesday Hubert.^[8]

• First uncertain wife. A daughter of Asard, son of Aslak, under-tenant in 1086. An entry in the cartulary for St Benet Holme says this marriage happened, but such cartularies often invented genealogies connecting up people who replaced each other. Fowler argues that this marriage has to be in this generation if it happened, based on chronological considerations.
• Second uncertain wife. A daughter of Godric, dapifer regis, sheriff of Norfolk & Suffolk." Complete Peerage notes: "Hubert de Munchensy (presumably his son) in 1155 says that not only his father, but his ancestors, had held Little Melton". This implies Godric was an ancestor. (Note that Danielo, who also saw that as important, takes it to mean a paternal ancestor, which does not seem to be necessary. So for him it meant that Godric married a daughter of Domesday Hubert, and this daughter passed her father's surname on to her heir. Godric's more certain heirs were to another wife.)

'Medieval Lands' has Hubert marrying twice, first unknown, second wife Muriel de Valoignes.^[9] Muriel wife of Hubert de Munchensy donated land at Rushworth to Thetford abbey on making her son Hugh a monk there, confirmed by her sons "William de Bachetone and Roger de Munchensy, her brother Roger de Valoignes and his son Piers", by undated charter.^[9]

Sons

• Hugo or Hugh, married Alice de Stoke. Held Edwardston, Wyverstone and Staverton. Fowler believes this was the head of the family in this generation.
• Hubert (who Fowler numbered as Hubert V), married Muriel de Valoignes. Fowler says he held under Hugh at Edwardston and at Stanstead in Halstead in Essex.
• Gilbert. Confirmed his father's grant to Abingdon around 1120/21, and attested in other documents as a brother of Hubert and Hugh.
• Warine. Attested as brother to Hubert, confirming their father's grant to Castle Acre. Founder of the Norfolk or Swanscombe branch which received the lands of Godric. Possibly therefore a descendant of Godric.

Death

It is possible that the elder Hubert died around 1115. According to Keats-Rohan he "died as a monk of Abingdon in the time of Abbot Faritius (d.1117)." If true, this would also strengthen the case for the 1115 Hubert being a successor.

Fowler suggests that he may have lived until 1122, when a Hubert was addressed in a charter of Eye priory, but he also suggests this could be the first record of his son of the same name.

Sources

1. ↑ ^{1.0 1.1 1.2} Complete Peerage, 2nd ed., Vol. 9. pp. 411ff.
2. ↑ Keats-Rohan, 1996, "Domesday Book and the Malets", Nottingham Medieval Studies 41 (1997) 13-56: "There is some evidence that, before 1086, he had a wife named Matilda, who was probably a close relative of his tenant Hubert de Montcanisy."
3. ↑ ^{3.0 3.1} Keats-Rohan, Domesday People p.256
4. ↑ SGM post by Chris Phillips: "p.256: Hubert de Montcanisy: origin should be Mont-Canisy, hamlet of comm. Tourgeville, cant. Deauville [not Mont-Canisy, Calvados, cant. Douvres-la-Délivrande]." Keats-Rohan also noted the necessary correction in Domesday Descendants, p.4.
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1} Sébastien Danielo, "St Benet of Holme’s Manor of Little Melton", ANGLO-NORMAN STUDIES 31: PROCEEDINGS OF THE BATTLE CONFERENCE 2008, https://epdf.tips/anglo-norman-studies-31-proceedings-of-the-battle-conference-2008.html
6. ↑ Chronicon monasterii de Abingdon, vol. 2, p.61 and p.62. Also see Monasticon Anglicanum, vol. 4, p.96.
7. ↑ Peter Stewart, "Peter de Valognes/Peter de Valence/Piers de Valoins", SGM post, May 26, 2004.
8. ↑ G.H. Fowler, "Montchensi of Edwardstone and some kinsmen", Miscellanea Genealogica et Heraldica, fifth series, 9 (1935-37).
9. ↑ ^{9.0 9.1} Munchensy. Medieval Lands FMG.