Is the English Flag offensive

Question

Not sure how to say this (especially on St George's Day) but is the English flag now considered out of bounds or offensive, I've just had a few profiles changed by a data doctor from the English Flag (White with Red Cross) to the Union Jack.

I am not entirely sure why? Do we now need to change the Scottish Flag (Blue and White) or the Welsh Flag (Red Dragon) to the Union Jack. Or are these ok just the English Flag

Note I am a person with ALL three nationalities in my tree.

EDIT : The flag change was done in error , so thankfully the English Flag can still be flown! 

I wasn't sure why it had been changed hence my question. 

Comments

I am not sure if it has been done in error BUT they migrated from England and they would claim English Ancestry. Hence why the English Flag was used, if they were born in Scotland I would use the Scottish Flag and claim Scottish Ancestry.

Just could not understand the change and wondered the reasoning behind it.

Melanie Paul - The ones I have found I have reverted from Flag-3 to Flag-8.

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Heather,

I’m an England Project Leader. Please can you PM me the details?

The comment An Anonymous has made is quite concerning but I’ve not looked into it yet. If both of you could PM me that would be great :-)

thanking you both!

I absolutely would distinguish between my Welsh and English ancestor flags no matter when they were born so myself and the England leaders would be happy to look into it :-)

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Lizzie if you go to my profile and look at the contributions  I have changed some (that I have found back) relevant surnames where Wilkinson, Dawson but there is probably others.

I am not sure why so many related people moved  some already married , some single and then married people that had also emigrated from England.

And often from the same town or neighbouring town. I wondered if there was some sort of 'drive'

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Hi Heather,

I’ve asked Steven Harris to have a little look. There must be a problem with the Migrant template. And when that error is being corrected it’s producing a UK flag, which is not ideal!

Steven is a super star, he’ll look into it for us!

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The error was real, and is not with the template, but the addition of a parameter not supported by the template.

Removing the incorrect parameter (caption) would have removed the DBE suggestion.  There was no need to change the flag.

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Thanks for looking Melanie, you got further than me (as always, heehee) I had to ask Steven to help! I’m sure it was all done in good faith and I’ve sent a message to the wikitreer changing the flag :-)

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@ Lizzie -- I am absolutely certain the person making the changes did so with the best of intentions, and in good faith.  Perhaps they didn't realise it was ONLY the incorrect  parameter that caused the DBE, and not the flag+caption.

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On occasion I have removed England flag images (basically pseudo-stickers with the flag and text saying something like This person was a subject of the King of England) from profiles of people who lived in colonial America. These were not approved stickers and there was no particular reason that the statement was meaningful for the person profiled (for example, a child who died young).

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Melanie, who is wise as, thanks for the flag lesson!

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I suspect the person correcting the parameter error doesn't understand why the error occurred. It's not due to the flag.

Answer 1

Thanks, Heather!  I had no idea I was causing trouble.  I realize now I should have just removed the 'caption' and not changed the flag.  Believe me, no offense was intended.  I believe all that I changed have been reverted.

~Kathy

Comments

Thanks Kathy! No trouble caused :-)

I learn so much all day, everyday (and editing stickers scares me.... just ask my fellow Leader in mining disasters who is sorting out all those sticker errors on her own, bless her!)

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Gracious of you, Kathy.

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See, I knew Kathy wouldn't have meant anything negative by it.  

Just trying to fix the DBE and relating the comment on the flag to the flag itself, and seeing it all as the DBE.  A misunderstanding, and an easy one to make.  

(I may not have the knowledge and expertise of Steven Harris, but I do a lot of image and template stuff on profiles, and think I have a reasonable grasp of them.) 

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Melanie, you are the queen of images! I so don’t get how you do what you do, and I love it!

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Send us something pretty ;-)

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Thanks for the explanation. I really didn't know what to think! I hoped it was an error (and glad it was) phew!

They are not even my family, just one of many that I 'find' from Lancashire . I then add relations (brother, sisters, parents, children etc) 

So what starts out as one person becomes a lot more - the spouses family is generated and then their siblings etc.

I only unadopt when I can go no further or someone links to them lower down who is more likely a descendant.

This is to help me keep track of my own tree (And yes I know we are all connected lol) 

Anyway Happy Hunting

From a Lancastrian  with English, Scottish and Welsh Ancestry and a couple from over the border in Yorkshire!

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Ooooooooh, ooooooh, ooooooh, I have Lancs and Yorkshire blood!  (And Durham, and Northumbrian.)  Yep.  :)

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Me tooooooooooo! Omg, one day we will connect up our Lancs folks!

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Pretty?
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I blame all the above on  the Imp Within.

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There's a problem with the template help pages. As an example, here's the migrating ancestor template page. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:Migrating_Ancestor

In the box at the top of the page, there are links to pages using the template and parameter usage on profiles. It hits the reader in the eye when they go to that page. The problem is, it is a listing of how it has been used, either correctly or incorrectly. Naturally people copy what they see others are doing, so if it has been used incorrectly previously, then people are copying incorrectly.

People have to scroll down to the bottom of the page to see how to use the template correctly. They're unlikely to do that if they think they've already found how to use it at the top of the page.

It would likely help to prevent these errors if the parameters were at the top of the page, and the usage table was at the bottom.

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Love these Melanie, you’re so good at that stuff! It makes me smile :-)

Answer 2

As someone who is English and lives in Wales I would use England Sticker| on my profiles with county if known. I would never use the Union flag.

Answer 3

We don't need to change it.  Profile doesn't even need to be old or modern.  The England flag is fine during *any* date.  You can only use the Union Jack after 1801.

Answer 4

No more than any other national flag.

Answer 5

What really is offensive is the suggestion that the flag of St George might be offensive!  The United Kingdom is a relatively recent (and flexible) construct: whilst the Union Flag may have its origins in the 1603 Union of the Crowns, it was not formally adopted until 1801, long after the parliamentary union of 1707. The fact that many Americans fail to appreciate the difference between England, Great Britain and the United Kingdom is a pretty poor excuse for amending national descriptors added originally by those who know better. I am a citizen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, and am certainly British but, first and foremost, I am English, being able to trace my ancestral roots  back to well before any union with another country. Whilst I consider Wikitree's obsession with badges and stickers to be infantile, I should certainly not wish anyone to attach a historically inaccurate flag to any of my ancestral profiles!