How to counter “You get what you pay for”?

Question

I’m amazed by many of the wonderful free ways DNA works with WikiTree: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/954460/did-know-wikitree-integrates-with-gedmatch-mitoydna-painter

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1054650/how-does-help-you-register-gedmatch-your-gedmatch-wikitree

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gufZ8hJPM7s

https://apps.wikitree.com/apps/clarke11007/DNAconf.php

Yet most DNA testees in WikiTree have not bothered to add their ancestry to WikiTree, or are not in GEDmatch, or mitoYDNA.

WikiTree, GEDmatch, DNA Painter, and mitoYDNA are free.  Some DNA tests are also free:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:DNA_Scholarships

More than once I’ve heard quips like: “You get what you pay for.” (i.e. nothing) or “If it is free then you are the product.”

I wish I understood marketing more in order to help DNA testees to better see the benefits of WikiTree’s DNA features.

What is WikiTree not doing with DNA that could be done better?

Comments

Yet most DNA testees in WikiTree have not bothered to add their ancestry to WikiTree,

Peter,  How did you determine this?  I have been a WikiTree user for four years and never noticed.

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Hello Douglas,

Go to https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:DNATests&t=ancestry_audna&limit=500&start=2000 and scroll and click through to their WikiTree profiles and see how many have not added their ancestry, or if they have added some ancestry then how little they added.

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Peter,  I did as you suggested and agree with your opinion.  Thanks for raising the matter.

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Are there statistics on how many WikiTree users have added their DNA?

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Hello Terri, 210,771 https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Badges&b=dna_tested

Answer 1

I think people may have gotten apprehensive about GEDmatch when it was in the headlines with crime fighting. You can read some discussion here:

https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/953293/gedmatch-just-acquired-by-verogen

This does not bother me, personally. I have continued to use my GEDmatch account and find it helpful. I don't want to comment on promoting GEDmatch because I don't know what the consensus here at Wikitree is. (Outside of it still being supported.)

This is the DNA Explained article mentioned in the discussion:

https://dna-explained.com/2019/12/10/gedmatch-acquired-by-verogen/

Comments

Thanks Dina.  A lot of GEDmatch users pay to have their ancestry at Ancestry.com.  I believe WikiTree does a much better job associating auDNA, Y-DNA, X-DNA, and mtDNA with relatives in WikiTree.

Answer 2

I was just talking about this yesterday....I have found matches with 0 genetic distance for MTDNA and over 350cm for AUDNA, yet I have no idea who these people are, they have no trees loaded, and they do not respond to curiosity messages.   So, why did they get tested?   

I think the issue is that people get tested just to find our countries of origin and not necessarily to find out there "ancestry".

Comments

To be honest, I think some people only care about their own genealogy and do not think about nor care in the least about helping anyone else with theirs, even coincidentally.

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Some people find a surprise when they test and don't want to correspond with anyone who is connected through that part of the tree.

Answer 3

Hi Peter,

Ok, first let's address the quip, "You get what you pay for." This is always a knee-jerk reaction by people who typically refuse to do any "due diligence" into whatever the topic is. I have worked for over 20 years on Open Source Software projects. The root of many of these projects is "crowd sourcing" the underlying source code and build tools of the software. We would not have the internet and all of the software that is being used to run the internet, without Open Source Software. It is a common fallacy to say, "you get what you pay for", because that assumes that there is nothing of value that is free (without some monetary cost). The people who say these sorts of things are being closed-minded. Now... having said that, there absolutely has to be due diligence into whatever it is one is looking at. The better phrase to use is the Latin phrase, "caveat emptor", or "buyer beware".

Second: Yes, there are a lot of different DNA tools and "materials" out there. It can be a bit confusing. I can't say that I have a full grasp of everything yet. There's just not a single place to go for everything. I think it's because genetic testing, and using it for genealogy, is still so very new. But it keeps getting better and as it does, it keeps getting easier for people. But I think it still has a long ways to go in terms of ease-of-use.

I agree with Robin, in that there seems to be a lot of people who do DNA tests for just their "Ancestry" or countries-of-origin, which is really not about genealogy. There is so much more they can do with their DNA tests, but they are either uninterested (don't care), unable (don't know how), or unwilling (want to stay private) to do any more with their tests or genealogy.

Lastly, to your question, "What is WikiTree not doing with DNA that could be done better?" That's a really good open-ended question. I'm sure that there are many others here who have a better view of the state of the art who can better answer that question.

Comments

Volunteer efforts, charity, and open source definitely go against the adage "you get what you pay for". Sometimes it's more "you get what you work for", other times it's other people putting in the work, and we reap the benefits (who hasn't used Wikipedia?).

I like to use LibreOffice, which has all the functionality of MS Office. But at work they insist we use MS Office, which I'm sure they pay a lot for. On the weekends I volunteer with a prairie restoration group, planting native plants, removing invasive species, brush cutting, etc. It's a lot of volunteer effort from scores of volunteers that makes a real difference over time, if we relied on getting money to do this, it simply wouldn't get done.

WikiTree falls into the categories of "you get what you work for" and "you get what other people have worked for". The real beauty of it is tying into the research that somebody else has done previously.

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Hello Eric,

GEDmatch isn't open source software, nor is WikiTree or DNA Painter.

On the contrary, with GEDmatch your data is being used to make money from law enforcement agencies. There were data breaches, the controversy around forced opt-in instead of the usual opt-out (as we all know people are lazy and 95% of users aren't changing a flag in a checkbox) and data privacy issues when access to LE was given despite users opting out of LE usage of their DNA data.

Still people are asking why not everyone happily uploads their own DNA data to GEDmatch and are getting salty about it?

Furthermore, GEDmatch and DNA Painter have paid features in there. mitoYDNA doesn't have them (to my knowledge, please correct me if I'm wrong). So "free" vs "free with paid features" is another difference.

Answer 4

A distant DNA match convinced me to give WikiTree another look and some months later, I’m on here often and see the benefits of DNA and the connection tools offered here. Will continue to spread the word.

Answer 5

Peter,

I think two of the factors affecting people uploading their DNA results is the European implementation of the GDPR, and the use of DNA in criminal research. The average person in all probability doesn't understand enough about either of these to make an informed judgement. There has been a lot of knee-jerk reaction to the use by law enforcement of DNA mentioned in another answer to this thread (see the Wikitree Comments here) and elsewhere. I know of several individuals that have removed all traces of their DNA information from GEDMatch, Ancestry and Wikitree because they are scared of being arrested for being related to a criminal... some have closed all DNA or genealogy related accounts as well.  Others have done the same (closed accounts) for fear that their privacy may be compromised, their identity may be stolen, or insurance companies will raise their rates or not insure them.  These are all of course highly unlikely to ever happen, but are spurred on by those that like to say the sky is falling because it sells (makes for better news).

The point is that as long as we have folks out there pushing "the sky is falling" narrative, we will have folks that will believe it, because we all know everything written on the internet is true .

So "What is WikiTree not doing with DNA that could be done better?" I believe that Wikitree needs to better educate average users on what can - and more importantly, what cannot be done with DNA, backed up by some real-world examples.  This also needs to be done in a simple and concise manner. Many folks brains shut off as soon as you start to mention SNPs, cMs, etc., without saying what those acronyms stand for. Don't get too scientific!  I have seen several responses on WikiTree that were written at the PhD level... which most of us, are not.

Answer 6

It’s certainly odd that someone would add their DNA test but not add any genealogical information. My only thought is that they are confused by the nature of the service. Or perhaps they intend to get started but find the task too daunting.

I believe there are ample educational resources for people to learn. They only  way I can think of to step it up would be to implement some sort of wizard to ask them specific questions to obtain some additional basic information about parents and grand-parents and then create those profiles.

I’m not sure if additional hand-holding would work to make them commit to family history, but it may be to figure out how they link in to the one-world family tree.

Comments

Thank you Davis.  That is much of my thinking also.

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Less than a 1/4 of Wikitree members have signed the honor code. That means 3/4 enter their own profile and maybe close family, and that's it.

Maybe the interface is too intimidating, maybe they just want to wait for others to connect to them, maybe they realize they have to do actual research or collect their notes and never get back to it. Maybe it's privacy concerns. It would be nice to be able to interview these people and see what the most common answers are, but it's hard to ask questions of people who aren't here.

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I think a lot of people create a wikitree profile that are just starting out with researching their family. They may not realise that wikitree is a depository for research and it won't find the sources etc for you. I can see how that would be daunting

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I've had a close relative join Wikitree.  He added himself, his immediate family, and his spouse.  In collaborative spirit, I added to his profiles and traced his birth name back to the early 18th century.  Since then, my relative has contributed nothing.  Possibly, the motivation to join was to attain a sort of "immortality" on the internet--and nothing more.  Alternatively, this person had no interest in the tools of genealogy.  When I extended his family lineage back over 100 years, was he intimidated by my extensive use of sources? He may have thought, "well, I can't do better, so I won't."