Help finding an England 1871 census and 1939 register from free sources

Question

Hi, I need to find free sources for a couple of documents I found on Ancestry. I tried FamilySearch and FreeCEN using a variety of spelling and different household members, all without luck. 

Do you know other free sources for censuses? Do you have any tips on how I could search more effectively?

These are the documents I found on Ancestry: https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/1022366:7619?tid=&pid=&queryId=e3ddf03de7dae85e916437e9651d0da5&_phsrc=vOy15&_phstart=successSource and https://www.ancestry.co.uk/discoveryui-content/view/31269091:61596?tid=185009770&pid=382418814713&hid=1023464344492&_phsrc=vOy4&_phstart=default)

Thank you for any help!

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Thank you all for your help! You’ve given me LOTS of good tips and I learned a lot from your answers. 

Comments

I didn't add the citation to the profile, either, because I am not working on it.
I use ancestry to view the images, then use FamilySearch for the free-to-view citations.

If Francesca is to learn how to do these things under the auspices of the Orphan Trail, then she needs to also use the resources she has (which include ancestry) to view and read the images, and add notations if the information as transcribed is incorrect.  Presumably her guide will teach her as they go along.
If we do everything needful, instead of what was asked (a helping hand to find a free-to-view citation), then nothing is learnt.
Any extra information I find, and offer, is done in such a way it is not simply doing it for the person, but hopefully guiding them to research further for themselves.

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Agreed that looking at Ancestry first for the actual image is the best way.  It shows just how much is added by Family Search that is not present on the original. For the censuses, for example, the administrative county is Bristol, and the Borough is Bristol. Not Gloucestershire.

Francesca: I thought Bloy was familiar but it was Bloy Street, not Bloy Terrace. I'm not sure where exactly Bloy Terrace was... My 3x Great Grandfather Ben Evans died at Bloy Street in 1901. His profile ( Evans-21833 ) has an example of a GRO death cert. pdf ( changed to jpg. to upload it ) and also a marriage from 1838. Notice that in both cases the county is "Bristol".

I've also got connections to Weeks ( or Wicks or Wix ) in the same area, but I realise now that this is an orphan trail profile and not a relative of yours. 

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For those coming late - the comment above mine was edited from "a) You didn't add the note" to include a qualifier "( in your example citation for Francesca )" ) to which I was not able to respond, as it wasn't there when I posted.

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For the record, the ancestry transcription of the 1871 census is also incorrect, as it also places the family in Gloucestershire.

What is most beneficial even with incorrect places for census returns is the FAMILY.  So long as the family as known is correct, it can be used to show continuity (ages, occupations), and relationships.  And those relationships are what we use to expand families.

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Joe - I have a feeling (given the sheer number of errors I see both on ancestry transcriptions, and on FamilySearch transcriptions) that most of these records are done by folk who have zero knowledge of England (or Australia), so use whatever they think is correct, even when it is not.  (Which is why we see places in England being named as a county in the USA, or vice versa, and so on.)
I have gone to the lengths of internet searching the distance between places, just to be sure I am right, and they are wrong.  

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Yes, I agree. Its just that when I started, I used Family Search transcriptions a lot and regret it now as there is so much to correct and that is so time consuming. In some cases they are fine, but my advice is to be very careful when researching Bristol using other people's transcriptions. There is confusion arising from the city being a county in its own right, but also with half of the outlying parts being in Gloucestershire to the north and half in Somerset to the south.

In fact, I would suggest that Bristol profiles, like London-based ones, are not ideal for orphan trailers' first profiles, unless they want a challenge ! There are loads of great Bristol sources, but not freely available unless you travel.

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You may be right.  Perhaps drop a suggestion to the leaders of the Orphan Trail and suggest such profiles be reserved for those with some experience under their virtual belts.  

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Joe, yes, this profile is part of the Orphan Trail and I want to do a good job, but I don't think I'll go beyond Emma.

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As a slight digression from Francesca's question, but relevant to the related subject of place name accuracy in citations and records that is part of the thread of responses — Lambeth, Surrey is another one.  FS has Lambeth, Surrey as an estate, not as a residential district, but frequently I find it "standardised" to "Lambeth, London Township, Middlesex, Canada West, British Colonial America".

So long as Francesca is (and others are) aware that such errors exist, there shouldn't be a problem using the citations and making (NOTE) in the reference once pasted to the profile that such things are errors. 

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I had been wondering about Lambeth. Some of my paternal ancestors lived in Lambeth, Surrey for a while and I always find the records confusing. I actually find the whole Middlesex thing confusing. Most of my Murphys lived in Chelsea, and the administrative divisions kept changing name (Chelsea, Kensington & Chelsea, etc.)

Edited to fix a typo

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I find this page (https://www.ukbmd.org.uk/reg/districts/index.html) extremely helpful, especially for the timeframe of those re-districting changes.  (Note - these are the places where the events were registered, which may not be the place where the event actually occurred, but when it's all you've got, you make that note as well.)

Answer 1

Hi Francesca,

I had a look at FreeCen for the 1871 record. Finding nothing for her name, I checked the Records transcribed. The St Michael, St Augustine set has not been transcribed.
I also checked on FamilySearch, and found nothing. Furthermore, I know that FamilySearch often does not have the 1871 census, so I wasn't too surprised.
As for the 1939 register, that is only available, as far as I am aware, on FindMyPast and Ancestry.
So I'm sorry to say I don't think there are any of the regular free sources available.
Regards,
Roy

Comments

Thank you Roy, knowing why I couldn’t find the record is going to save me time in future searches. :)

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The 1939 Census is also available on MyHeritage.

You don't have to use free records. It is preferred, because it makes life much easier for people who don't have a subscription, but when there is nothing freely available, a source behind a paywall is ok too. Additionally Ancestry has the sharing links, which open up the picture.

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Thank you, Jelena. 

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Jelena, while it is true that we (generally) don't have to use free records, when one is doing the England Project's Orphan Trail the "rules" are somewhat different. 
Hilary, of the England Project, as posted to say "you should only be using the free resources", and has pointed Francesca to where they are on the Trailers Index Pages.  This, then, heavily discourages use of sites such as MyHeritage, FindMyPast, and ancestry.

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The England Trail maybe discourages to use subscription sites. But actually this doesn't really help if there is no free source available for a fact, as it seems to be for the 1939 Census.

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For the 1939 register (it wasn't actually a census, and was two years early for such), I would agree that allowing a paid subscription site should be permitted, so long as there is the ability to generate a free-to-view version such as the ancestry sharing link.  Otherwise it's probably best to omit such.

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Have a look at the very first post-1800 example profile for the orphan trailers:

Barrett-1946

Plenty of sources - hardly any Family Search. Some at National Archive, or London Metropolitan archives. 1939 register cited. Ancestry used as well etc etc.  Great profile !

Found at: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:England%2C_Orphan_Trail_Example_Profiles

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Hi Joe, yes, I am looking at the Barrett profile especially since I still need to write the bio. It's a great example.

Answer 2

I also  can't find the 1871 census entry on Family Search, perhaps someone else can. I used to be able to find things on there but after 'recent' changes now find it much more difficult. Obviously, I also need some better search strategy  (I tried to find it from this page https://www.familysearch.org/search/collection/1538354 but can't find anyway of searching by reference numbers(piece folio, en dist)I'm sure that you used to be able to do this.)

Free Census doesn't seem to have transcribed this 

I  view census entries on Ancestry, preferring them to the' transcripts' on Family search. I  use a full citation such as 

1871 Census, England, RG10;  Gloucestershire, Bristol,  St Michael, enumeration district 5 Piece: 2533; Folio: 6; Page: 3; 

You can then add a partial transcript of your own. Alternatively (or in addition) you could add the ancestry sharing link.

https://www.ancestry.co.uk/sharing/30426029?h=3a9175

Comments

Thank you Helen, I thought it was me not knowing how to search. I even watched an hour-long video on how to search on FamilySearch that talked about the Batch Number, but I couldn’t find the Batch Number anywhere.

Thank you also for the full citation example. :)

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Actually, the 1871 census (table plus source) is in the biography.

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Actually, the 1871 census (table plus source) is in the biography.

commented by Ros Haywood 

The free to view FamilySearch citation wasn't, though, when Francesca asked the question.  Just the link to ancestry (not a sharing link).

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Answer 3

1939 Register shows her living at 41 Stanley Street, Bristol and born 14 Jan 1858

Record Transcription: 1939 Register | findmypast.co.uk

Comments

Thank you Gordon, I have the 1939 Register record from Ancestry.co.uk. I was looking for the same record as a free source for a project that doesn’t allow citations from databases behind a paywall. It turns out that the 1939 Register for the most part is not available from free sources.

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The National Archive at Kew have it : “you can view these records online free of charge in the reading rooms at The National Archive”, and you can’t get a much better free source than that. They have a good cafe too.

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Ha! Too bad I’m in Italy. 

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Francesca, perhaps you should ask your guide if a sharing link would be ok for the 1939 register, seeing it is not yet generally available for free.

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I plan to, Melanie, as soon as a Trailblazer gets assigned to me. I think they are a little short on Trailblazers at the moment.

Answer 4

Find a free website to store certificates on and then make the link to that instead of FMP etc. I know you can put then in your own tree and I think you have to reference FMP as the source

Answer 5

For the Orphan Trail you do not need to pay for any documents you should only be using the free resources most of them are on the Trailers Index Pages. Please ask questions in Discord Trailers channel if you have them as the answers may help other trailers. 

Comments

Hi Hilary, I had looked at the Trailer Index pages and that’s why I asked for help locating two documents I couldn’t find in the free resources. The 1939 Register doesn’t seem to be available outside of for-pay services.

I find Discord difficult to use. I’ll try again.

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Happy to help you with Discord as it is useful for a more immediate response.

Wanted to make sure you had the link okay for the index and realised that you were not expected to pay for anything that you would use doing the Orphan Trail.

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Thank you, Hilary. Gill is looking into why I keep getting prompts to get verified when I log into Discord. I may have done something wrong when I (thought) I followed the verification instructions.

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Hopefully, now you are back in you will have no problems returning I have added your role so you should be okay.

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Yes, it looks like we solved the problem. :)