Remove PGM Parents of Robet Chapman Saybrook, CT 1616 - 1687?

Question

PGM Team and Chapman researchers,

Should we remove the parents of Robet Chapman Saybrook, CT 1616 - 1687?

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Chapman-441

NEHGR 2005 Vol 159 p 316 and The American Genealogist Vol 66 p 30 – 32 1991 (both cited by Robert Anderson in his 2015 GM Directory) both state that his parents are *not* Robert Chapman and Alice Robinson of Hull and he was not the Robert baptized 1616 in Hull. His parents have not been found.

Dorothy Chapman Saunders, The American Genealogist: The Origin of Robert Chapman of Saybrook, Connecticut, A Theory Nipped in the Bud (New Haven, Conn.: D.L. Jacobus, 1991) Vol 66 p 30 – 32 Quote:

"As attractive as the theory is, Robert Chapman of Saybrook, Conn., was not the son of Robert and Alice (Robinson) Chapman who was baptized in Kingston upon Hull in January 1616/7."

He could not be the son of Robert Chapman and his wife Alice Robinson, baptized 1/1/1617 at Holy Trinity Parish, Kingston on Hull, Yorkshire, England because that Alice was deceased before 22 Oct 1633. Yet in 1651 in court testimony it stated that his mother was very much alive and influential (citing Heritage Books reprint of Records of tlie Particular Court of Connecticut, 1639-1663 (originally published Hartford 1928) and discovered the following under the court held 14 May 1651 (pp. 99, 100)).

Robert Charles Anderson in the GM Directory (2015) and NEHGR 2005 Vol 159 p 316 both cite the above source as the latest information we have on his parents.

Direct links:

 

NEHGR 2005 Vol 159 p 316 (subscription required):

http://www.americanancestors.org/databases/new-england-historical-and-genealogical-register/image/?volumeId=11673&pageName=316&filterQuery=databasename:New%20England%20Historical

 

The American Genealogist Vol 66 p 30 – 32 (subscription required):

http://www.americanancestors.org/databases/american-genealogist-the/image/?pageName=30&volumeId=12961&filterQuery=BROWSE

Comments

I sent a link to this thread to all the profile managers.

Answer 1

The information sited seem to lead to the conclusion that the parents of Robert Chapman-441 should be detatched., However, the statement, "in 1651 in a court testimony it was stated that his mother was very much alive..." Could this possibly be Alice Robinson, and her decease date of 22 Oct 1633 is inaccurate?

If there is any doubt, anything questionable, I don't think we should detatch them.  What else can we do on wikitree besides detatching them completely?  I'm fairly new to wikitree and still learning.

Roland, I appreciate that you are trying to get as close as we can to the truth, while looking back at it from over 350 years.

Cheryl

Comments

Take a look at the whole TAG article. The author, Dorothy Chapman Saunders, is the one who originally published the idea that Robert Chapman the immigrant to Connecticut was the same man who was baptized in Hull son of Robert and Alice Robinson. So it is the same author now retracting her original claim based on new research. So if the person who came up with the theory is rejecting it in a peer reviewed source like TAG and NEHGR is quoting it than I think that we can't go with this theory any longer.

 

Robert Chapman had a sister name Rebecca - but there is no baptism record for her in this family. So that is another item that just doesn’t fit.

 

Alice’s date of death is certain because we know that the supposed father died on 11 Jan 1620 and administration was granted to Alice (Robinson) Chapman. She died and on 22 Oct 1633 and the administration of the whole estate passed to John Robinson. In other words the death date wasn’t determined by a death record which could have been a bad match. It was determined by the date the administration of her estate fell to her kin. So the date of death isn’t the issue. This Alice was dead long before the court testimony said she was alive.

 

The author posits that he may have actually been one of the two men by the same name recorded on on 10 Jan. 1638 in a survey, both in the Hundred of Blythinge (p. 181 in South Cove and p. 187 in Sotherton).

Answer 2

Roland I agree that the parents should be disconnected. Interestingly I cannot access Robert's profile, I just get a white page. ?

Comments

Thanks Anne B!

Maybe there was a temporary glitch. It seems to be working now:

http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Chapman-441

---

Ahh... That's better.

Answer 3

I don't have a dog in this hunt, Roland, but I've reviewed your reasoning and I've looked at the two online sources, and I agree that the parents should be disconnected.

Just one mystery:  The 1991 source focuses on explaining why Robert Chapman and his wife Alice Robinson weren't this man's parents, but the mother attached to his profile is Rebecca Mason. Where did she come from? (I see even less basis for her than I see for Alice.)

Comments

Robert Chapman-5381 has a wife named Alice Robinson.

---

Yes, and there's good documentation of her existence -- but she wasn't the mother of Chapman-441. I'm looking at the parents on that profile, and I'm seeing Rebecca Mason....

---

yes, that's what I see also, Rebecca Mason.  I just looked at other Robert Chapman profiles and saw this wife Alice Robinson on Chapman-5381.

My guess is that Roland is doing some digging.  Or else he is busy helping someone else at this time.

Much thanks for your input.  This quest was started when I wanted to do a PGM bio for Robert Chapman-441...so we'll see where the trail leads.

Cheryl

---

Sorry for the wait!

As far as I can tell the mystery wife/mother is based on this one familysearch marriage record for a Robert Chapman in 1616 but it doesn't fit well with a Yorkshire theory of origin:

 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NJG2-Q8X

 

Robert Chapman

mentioned in the record of Robert Chapman and Mason

Name	Robert Chapman
Spouse's Name	Mason
Event Date	1616
Event Place	Burton-Latimer, Northamphton, England
Father's Name	Henry Chapman
Spouse's Father's Name	William Mason

---

I added that familysearch.com reference to the list of sources on Robert Chapman-441.

I am directly descended from Robert Chapman and his wife Ann Bliss - they are my 9th great grandparents.

Of course, Robert's parents, Robert Chapman and his wife (if it really is his wife) Rebecca Mason would be my 10th.  I don't know how we would draw conclusions about this parentage.

Is there someone from PGM project who would like to take on the challenge of doing the bio and footnotes for this profile?  It feels a bit "over my head."

Cheryl