help to source a profile? Trying to figure out LNAB - Ilcombe Holcombe or Ilcomb (m William Perry)

Question

Hi! I'm trying to find sources for Ilcomb-1 & have been unsuccessful. Looking to figure out what her LNAB should be so duplicate profiles Ilcomb-1 & http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Ilcombeholcombe-1 can be merged (contenders appear to be Ilcombe & Holcombe, but I think Holcombe is a later version).

Thanks!

P.S. One of the "research note" comments I posted on her profile was that a FamilySearch search turned up nothing in the correct century, but I'm notorious for not being able to find anything useful when I look in FamilySearch.

Comments

The name was often spelled without the second 'R' - I went through the line to find any clues and while she's an ancestor of the Earls of Limerick (Pery), the peerage sources don't go back this far. The book Perry of London: A Family and a Firm on the Seaborne Frontier (p. 9 specifically) has a sketchy early history of the family, no mention of wives, also a preference for Pery over Perry for the Devonshire/Limerick families.

If we're guessing, there's a parish in Devon called Ilfracombe, but its pretty far from Exeter while Holcombe is 15 miles away. 

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Not authoritative perhaps but this gives some info on the surname ilcombe and derivatives.

https://www.houseofnames.com/ilcomb-family-crest

The surname Holcomb appears to be a place name and may have had different origins than the surname Ilcomb

https://www.houseofnames.com/holcomb-family-crest

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Sir Henry Ilcombe was a MP and HoP has these varations Evelcombe, Ivelcombe, Yevelcombe, Ylcombe. HoP says Sir Henry prob. had no children but he had brothers William and Baldwin. Ilcombe I think was a place/manor in Kilkhampton. Cornwall which passed into the Pyne family through (I think) William's da. Thomazine.

The Pery family appears to me to be a couple of generations from gentry in the 15th century so the odds of us finding any records are kind of slim.

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Thanks for finding that Kirk! I had looked for Perry/Pery, but not Ilcombes.

Based on the information available, it seems like best bet for her LNAB is Ilcombe, so I'll propose that to the project managers.

Cheers, Liz

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or... maybe not. My eyes saw an "e" in the url David posted, but there's not one:
https://www.houseofnames.com/ilcomb-family-crest

so maybe best to stick with the already existing Ilcomb-1?

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I don't think you are going to be happy with the spelling - A Complete Parochial History of the County of Cornwall, Volume 4 p. 143 has the same Arms that you see on houseofnames with the spelling Ilcombe. 

"Ilcombe of Kilkhampton. Gu, 2 lions pass. guard. ar. within a bordure engr. sa."

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I'm happy with a decision/consensus. It doesn't matter to me what the spelling is (although those descended from her may have a preference) so long as we pick one & get the duplicates merged. I have too many New Netherland ancestors to get hung up on what name gets chosen as LNAB! (One of my NN ancestors has his "surname" four different ways in the same, single, contemporary document.)

Cheers, Liz

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There is a reference (unverified) that has Alice as the daughter of a John Ilcombe, merchant and mayor of Plymouth.

http://www.genealogy.com/forum/surnames/topics/perry/10928/

Research on John Ilcombe of Plymouth may turn up relevant information.

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 There is a book   which includes the phrase "William Pery, bailiff of Exeter in 1578, had an important link with Plymouth through his wife, Alice, the daughter of John Ilcomb, merchant of Plymouth."

Perry of London: A Family and a Firm on the Seaborne Frontier Jacob Price (no idea how well source it is) There was a William Perry bailiff of Exeter in that year.https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=ci42AAAAMAAJ&pg=PA130&lpg=PA130&dq=william+perry+bailiff+exeter&source=bl&ots=M4PBftQk3r&sig=mp3zcd0P6laJP3FW5j3EojdXufs&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiVof7d4sjOAhWBuhoKHWAIDcQ4ChDoAQgbMAA#v=onepage&q=william%20perry%20%20&f=false

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Will of John Ilcombe, Merchant of Plymouth, Devon  PROB 11/65/230 22 April 1583 http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/details/r/D966105  viewed on Ancestry.co.uk

contains

I give and bequeathe to Alyce Perry my daughter my best standinge  cupp of silver with the cover of the same, and to every of her children

 Fouretie shillinge of lawfull money of England ,  and to every of them two sylver spoones

Item,If it happen that my shippe named Myinoy? be at the time of my decease  abroad from home in anye mechant voyage   I give and bequeathe the money due for the fraight of the saide shippe for the saide shippes voyage unto Phillipe Yarde and William Perry my sonne in lawe to be equally divided between them(cont)

His wife is called Christian and still alive. Son called John and daughter Joane Yarde

Will get back to it  as quite long  but no time now.

 

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THANK YOU THANK YOU THANK YOU!!

I think we have a winner: Ilcombe

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There are other documents at TNA with the Ilcombe sans e ie Ilcomb. More problematic are the dates. The will was written on the 12th daie of januarie in the one and twentithe yeare of the raigne of oure soveraigne ladye Elizabeth etc That works out to Jan 1578/9 (and Alice on the profile is said to have been born a hundred years before that.)

Other child mentioned is Elizabeth Corbyn . She doesn't seem to get so much nor is her husband mentioned. The children of Joane are Margerye and Cartwrighte (odd name but a daughter)

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Helen, it does not actually say she was born on a specific date, it says AFTER a date. Today is after that date. I think she was born circa 1519, or later. Further, I do not think the children shown are hers, mainly because of the dates, and young William does not belong to that group at all. The other two sons were probably from William senior's first marriage to Elizabeth Coney, but the dates need correcting.

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Well, no matter what others decide, I shall stick with the findings of the Heralds Visitations of Devon, 1531, 1564, and 1620. It is Holcombe, as far as I am concerned. That is as stated in the PERRY of WATER pedigree, page 591. I have also given the page 474 in the visitations that shows the HOLCOMBE pedigree. Further, note that the surname is not derived from a location, they are, in fact Holcombe of Hull. Guesswork is no substitute for documentary evidence.

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Full transcript of the will of John Ilcombe (has been sitting on my computer for the last three years!

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Will_of_John_Ilcombe%2C_Merchant_of_Plymouth%2C_Devon%2C_1583

Answer 1

I'm always wary of sources that refer to a 'family crest', it tends to show how little they actually know about heraldry. The correct term is a Coat of Arms, carried upon a shield for a male and a lozenge for a female.

I have found a note in my papers that states Alice returned to Plymouth after her husband died, this implies that she may have originated from there, but I'm not positive.

Answer 2

Liz, can I refer you to my recent post. I don't know about "earlier" spellings, but in the Visitations of Devon, 1564, it is very clearly Holcombe.

Comments

Hi Tim! I'm not a Magna Carta project co-leader anymore, so I'm not as involved with these profiles as before. However, it looks like the other profile I was asking about has been orphaned (and set as rejected - why, I'm not sure). Anyway, you could adopt Ilcombeholcombe-1 then rename it Holcombe & merge Ilcomb-1 away into it.

Cheers, Liz

 

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oh hey, just realized you're the profile manager for Ilcomb-1 ... you can just rename it to the correct LNAB.

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May I, again, draw your attention to "The Visitations of the County of Devon, 1531, 1564, 1620". Original held at the Yale University Library, digitized and put freely online by The Hathi Trust. Page 474 gives the Pedigree of Holcombe, Page 591 gives the Pedigree of Perry. Both confirm the maiden name, and the marriage.

This clearly shows the maiden name to be HOLCOMBE, NOT Ilcombe.

I believe the source of the false surname is Ancestry .... sufficient said.

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sorry Tim - still waiting for that URL. Just haven't had time to search for the references you cite.

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https://catalog.hathitrust.org/record/008734962

Hope this helps.

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nope.

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