Events template

Question

Maybe we should have templates for specific and custom events. Like:

{{Event
| baptism
| date=20140302
| loc=Some church, Ljubljana, Slovenia
| locLonLat=15,45
| locWD=Q1234
| src=Source text
| srcLink=Source link
}}

Or

{{EventBaptism
| date=20140302
| loc=Ljubljana, Slovenia
}}

{{EventBaptism|20140302|Ljubljana, Slovenia}}

Ouput of this event could be a nice sentance with all important data attached to it. Looks like we won't get any new fields in Wikitree, so this could be the way to make information readable by computers.

Similarrly we could have any number of custom events like residence, workplace, burrial, awards, medals, battles, scholl,...

Comments

The trick is to get text output that doesn't read like the computer-gibberese we get on other database-driven sites, eg the brown ones.

Otherwise the output might be better as an infobox.

---

There is no need to put all entered data into output. Some are optional for linking. 

It would be something like 

{{firstnameatbirth}} was baptised on {{date}} in {{loc}} [[wikidata.org/wiki/{{srcWD}} wd]][[google={{locLonLat}} g]] <ref>{{src}} [[{{srclink}}]]</ref>.

a few conditions are missing but i think you get the idea.

---

Actually of course it would be easy to have a choice of output formats, switched by a parameter.

Another output option could be a table row to form part of a timeline.

{|
!Timeline
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
...
|}

---

Or, you could match the new gedcom-import style, to insert events into an existing gedcom-generated bio in a matching style.

(Actually, the gedcom import could generate template calls)

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Can someone, Magnus/Aleš?, just pick one format and let us try it out?  Seeing it in action would do more to work out any concerns than chatting about it in G2G.  If necessary, at first this could be in addition to normal Bio.  FWIW, I like the first one with the labels, and assume it would be OK to skip or change order using that format.

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I am a little out of practice with templates, but I will try to make one in a day or two (My job work is really up after holidays), Or If someone else can prepare it.

templates can be used without parameter names like {{EventBaptism|20140302|Ljubljana, Slovenia}} in order as parameters are defined from first to any number, second possibility is to use parameter name and value. usually in multiple lines. That is how templates are designed.

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As for timeline, it could be programmed to be created automatically from all templates and data on profile. Similar to <references/> tag. But to start thinking of that we must first use templates (computer readable data) Also migration maps can be created based on this data.

Histopedia people already offered to customize their time chart for wikitree and with these additional timed data it could be really nice result.

http://www.wikitree.com/g2g/273755/timelines-using-sparql?show=287262#a287262

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@Aleš if you should support Coordinates I think Family Search COORD can be used. Family Search has a later version of Wikimedia but don't use the LUA module that Wikipedia does
 

• https://familysearch.org/wiki/en/index.php?title=Template:Coord&action=edit
• Special:WhatLinksHere/Template:Coord
• WikiTree Template:Coord&action=history

Version1 maybe doesn't need to be so advanced more use what is in Google map 46.055059, 14.536153 and then display inline

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I am about 2 or 3 weeks away from having a working biography generator that reads a profile, and any existing references and formats a bio section in one of about 4 different formats, timeline, narrative etc. It will add tables for Family Search and Find My past census forms and other family search blocks. It even cleans up GEDCOM bios!

At present I am delayed by only being able to read Open profiles due to a tokens problem that remains unresolved.

Unfortunately for some it only runs on Windows machines but I am happy to give the code out if someone can convert to Java.

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This is great to hear. I was playing with this idea a while ago, but didn't finish it. Looking forward to seeing it in action.

Since you posted in this thread, I assume you could also take advantage of event templates and include them in Bio, timeline,...

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Is Census an Event or just a Source?  Is it an event for every household member (1850+ USA)?

Is Christening a separate Event or listed under Baptism?

What about Military Service? (primarily during War, but some non-War, e.g. Colonial Militia)

For land records, we have at least Grants, Patents, & Deeds - put all under Land?

Witness as an Event, or just identify as role in whatever type of Event it was?

Estate - separate from Will I presume, but do we limit it to the person's own estate proceedings or use it for when they participate in someone else's?

Just for starters (I can probably come up with more). :)

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@Mikey Anonymous

Everything is events but the question is what are you interested to track...

I do timelines all the time (in Swedish)..... and its nothing magic more than an excellent tool to use in Swedish genealogy as we have a lot of sources and can rather easy create timelines of a person's life.... 

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I understand I could list anything as an event.  That isn't what the question was about.  The point was that standardization would allow for more meaningful analysis, both by computer and humans.

 

I tried a mockup of a usergroupbox for events, just typing in data which would otherwise be filled in from templates once they're implemented.   Was not too pleased.  I think there will need to be a customized version for events to get a nice display like the Wikipedia sidebar.

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@Mikey you would like to have standard names for events

In Wikidata you have just a few standard events like born dead buried spouse and .... normally you can add a qualifier as date started and end compare see Q134549 Ted Kennedy and spouse Victoria Reggie Kennedy or United States Senator.....

In Swedish church books you have the following events in the church records....

1. Born
2. Baptized
3. Moving in
4. Moving out
5. Children born
6. Resident (if it is an event?!?!)
7. Married
8. Passed away
9. Estate and Inventory

 

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Just a thought,

Would it be possible to attach a separate page for data or a data section to a profile? It might be that marriage data works in this way.

If possible, this data section or page could be accessed by a form which caan be activated from a button on the top of the Edit section.

The possibilities would solve a lot of things

Example: The form when opened could get the place name fields. On the form next to each other you could have a Historic place name and a modern place name. The user fills in the two corresponding place names , the modern one is a drop down from the existing database. When  saved both place names are saved in the data section with the historic name in its place inserted on the profile being edited. When someone clicks the google map button it gets the name from the modern place name field in the data section in stead of the actual name in the place name field.

 This can be extended to more forms for events. In short the user can complete the event information on the form and then click insert which would insert at text output into the profile. The event is then saved in the data section under controlled names for fields.

Another example is that a user could save example references in this way to insert. However these references will come from the data page or section attached to his own profile. which could be inserted with date onto the profile being edited.

Just a thought, if it were possible

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@Louis what you suggest is what Wikipedia has done creating Wikidata

see video me explaining the concept

• Wikidata has unique IDs
• Wikidata support links to all different language versions of Wikipedia
• Wikidata has about +4000 properties
• Wikidata has external ids like P2949 which is WikiTree 
  • status 2017-08 is 36797 articles on WIkipedia connected to WikiTree
• Wikidata has a query language SPARQL and a report generator ex. 
  • find all people on a cemetery in STockholm with an article on WIkiTree and display it on a map
• Wikidata at openhub.net  

Big pic

See also Space:Wikidata

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Hi Magnus,

Believe me I'm not reinventing the wheel. If it could be applied to WikiTree on a localized scale, you would have users voluntarily creating structured data which could be extrapolated in numerous inventive ways. They can edit the data into sentences any way they like on the edit page but your fundamental data would stay structured.

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Not a template I am afraid and my original plan has stalled because of an unresolved problem with the API, but I do have this which may be of use

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:WikiTree_Text_Formatter

---

A profile is cobbled together from a database record and a MediaWiki page.  They're separate systems that don't communicate much.  Sometimes they hardly seem to be about the same person.

But profile variables do exist.  Eg you can write

{{#profile:LastNameAtBirth}}

in a bio, and the reader will see the LNAB.  (Doesn't work in preview)

They're mostly used in templates.

User variables are more versatile, but they're an extension and might need a later version of MediaWiki.

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Judging by the replies, you guys are making things very complicated. I have users on here , very old people, one even refuses to create a profile. I have to do it, but they want to contribute. Do you know why I help them" Here is an example -translated- ''then she married that useless nut who left her pregnant and went of to war never to come back."

What I am trying to say is that most of these old people don't understand why stuff do not work - example Historic place names. I will not relate the comments when a world map shows up when they click the link.

Enough said

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@Louis I think Wikitree should also support people WHO just have a story to tell better

Have a big button that started record a video --> you tell your stories on the video and afterwards  It's saved in youtube and displayed on the Wikitree profile...

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My apologies for asking that broken things be fixed and for a little bit more user friendliness.

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I only said that most of the underlying technology for your scheme appears to be in place.

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@Louis: Define old? I will be 70 next year. Is that old? I still wonder how metal aeroplanes fly and why steel ships don't sink, but clicking a map link? Easy peasy!

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LOL Great stuff. You are still as sharp as a nail. I should actually rephrase that to less technically minded. :)

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@Horace I tested once some different variables and what is supported inside the WIkiTree version of Wikimedia

See Space:SPC_TestCSS I created in 2015 to understand what was possible inside WikiTree.... lesson learned is that there seems to be no good forum inside WIkiTree to discuss further development using templates inside WikiTree and support genealogy better (Aleš is the great exception....). After spending time on WIkidata/Wikipedia I am uch more convinced Templates and more structured data is needed....  Aleš is trying to the best of the situation but by not using templates will also impact the quality of what he is doing.....  

Variables I tested.....

:1 {{FULLPAGENAMEE}}
:2 {{PAGENAMEE}}
:3 {{BASEPAGENAMEE}}
:4 {{SUBPAGENAMEE}}
:5 {{SUBJECTPAGENAMEE}}
:6 {{ARTICLEPAGENAMEE}}
: 7{{TALKPAGENAMEE}}
:8 {{ROOTPAGENAMEE}}
:9 {{DIRMARK}}
:10 {{DIRECTIONMARK}}
:11 {{NAMESPACE}}
:12 {{SUBJECTSPACE}}
:13 {{ARTICLESPACE}}
:14 {{TALKSPACEE}}
:15 {{NUMBEROFVIEWS}}
:16 {{CURRENTWEEK}}
:17 {{localurl:Söderala (X)}}
:18 {{localurl:Gävle (X)}}
:19 {{fullurl: pagename }}
:20 {{fullurl}}
:31  {{fullurl:{{FULLPAGENAME}}}}
:32 {{NUMBEROFARTICLES}}
:33 {{CURRENTVERSION}}

Biggest problem with the WikiTree version I feel is the lack of string manipulation functions..... in the WikiTree version 1.11.0 ==> would make it possible to create more generic templates.... 

Links:

• Magic words
• Module:String

 

 

Answer 1

I would rather have a nice sentence written by me for baptism and burial etc. rather than a template generated sentence.

And if all I choose to do is

Baptism: St. Mary's, New York, New York, 1 Sept 2016.

It hasn't taken me any longer to do that than it would to fill in the parameters plus I would probably have to look up the template.

Comments

What about it being optional?  People who can handle it go ahead and do it, and those who don't want to don't have to.

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The point of using such templates is, that computers can process this data and work with it. If this would be used, you could search for all people baptized in Ljubljana in years 1910-1920. Today such query is impossible. With such info templates computers can understand the data. To understand a sentence and deduct this information from it computers need another 50-100 years.

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Good discussion here.

Mikey, "optional" doesn't really make sense when you think about style rules. We all work on the same profiles. If you don't add a template to a profile, someone else might, if it's accepted style. http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Style_FAQ

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Optional makes sense to me because I think once it's there other people could read it and fill in blanks, or make corrections.  That is easier than creating it, right?  But heck, if you want to make it mandatory, go for it! I think it's not good to stop every advance because some won't like it.

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I have no illusions, that all events will be corrected to such form. It would be a possibility to use it with some benefits to the profile itself, and also other things like data exchange, data validation (yes, I would validate if date is within lifetime of a person), timelines,...). I am sure, that wikitree beginners won't be able to use it at the start, but as get used to wikitree, they might.

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I think adopting these would be easier if they're infoboxes/side-bar features rather than inline text. Two reasons:

1.) They would fit the feature box style that we generally already accept in http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template_Guidelines

2.) Ellen's sentence could co-exist with the feature box. If an event template creates a sentence, the person who edits the profile after Ellen to add the template would be replacing what she wrote. She couldn't change it back. If it were a feature box you could do both. Not that this would be efficient.

The big hurdle though is the code. We will intimidate a lot of people. Right from the start if we adopt RJ's idea of using these in GEDCOM imports.

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You probably mean feature boxes, infoboxes/side-bar are not mentioned on Template guidelines.

1.) Do you mean like one box for all events (Wikipedia example in upper right-hand corner https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pablo_Picasso), or 10 separate boxes one for each event (Like http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stewart-6849)?

Wikipedia's infobox is one solution for this, but my idea was to create the timeline in paragraphs 

== Timeline ==
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
...
 

or in table like RJ suggested in table.

{|
!Timeline
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
{{Event|...}}
...
|}

Timeline would be nice addition to the profile and data could be easily extracted for further processing.

2.) Ellen's (you mean Anna's) could coexists with template. We could prepare a few variations of output:

• hidden: no output
• minimal:  Baptism: St. Mary's, New York, New York, 1 Sept 2016.
• timeline: 1 Sept 2016: Baptism: St. Mary's, New York, New York
• Table:
  | -
  | 1 Sept 2016 | | Baptism | |  St. Mary's, New York, New York | | Source 
• Sentance: Aleš was baptised on 1 Sept 2016 in St. Mary's, New York, New York <ref>Source</ref>.
• ...

So if someone really likes formatting of the profile, data can be added hidden from the user, or in various forms.

 

Idea for gedcoms is good, but let's leave that for later when this concept is excepted and implemented and used. Usually people don't edit GEDCOMS after import. They just leave it as it is for a long time. 4,5 million profiles have .ged in it and 3.6 milions have GEDCOM in text. If one really edits the profile, GEDCOM or .ged should not be in it. I remember when I made first import, I didn't know what to do with created text and data (import IDs). Now I know, I could delete almost everything.

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Aleš, could you elaborate a little on this statement, "data can be added hidden from the user"?

As a general rule, unless a profile is legitimately privacy protected I believe all of the genealogical information on a profile page should be viewable and editable by the users. What data would you suggest could be hidden?

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Template can have no output, so it is invisible in the profile, until you go into edit mode. Then you see values entered in template. This could be used if you don't want to visually change the profile.

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Aleš, I really like your idea of doing it in a timeline section. This makes it a new feature separate from the bio. Bios could still contain sentences and references in the current style, so this would not be a replacement. This could just be the recommended way to do a timeline.

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I also like the idea of putting data on events such as baptisms in a separate optional sidebar (or "data box") that does not substitute for the biography text.

But I'm not sure I'd go so far as to make this "the recommended way to do a timeline." I've run across several contributors who create timelines instead of biographical text (and sometimes convert other people's nicely written complete sentences and paragraphs into bulletized timelines); I'm afraid if they were told that this is the recommended way to do timelines, they might completely eliminate the text section. It should be very clear that this is a recommended sidebar to a biography, not the main biography.

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Re: Timeline and/or bio section 

Why not have both? And let the user interface select the preferences of the user?

We already have something like this in WikiTree and TOC

If you check a profile Lindgren-317 you have next to the Table of Content Show and Hide this is remembered by the browser next time you visit a profile

I have requested that we should have some Css and JS files on the server that would make the show/hide function easy for templates to activate

===>

If someone likes to see a autogenerated timeline it can be default Show otherwise hide....

See also:

• MediaWiki:Common.js at family search
  • has createCollapseButtons ==> if an item has class collapsible then you get an button to collapse
• MediaWiki:Common.css
  • server based css so that templates use classes for CSS and we get the same styles for all templates and not like today people playing around with inline CSS.... 

 

 

Answer 2

I support this
Most genealogy software supports events with location ==> when you import it to WikiTree everything get lost

Doing Swedish Genealogy when we have good church books my prefered tool is a timeline. Inside WikiTree I have to do it in free text (Tidslinje in Swedish) which looks ok but can't be used for anything else.....

As one template easily can call another template see Template:SPC_Gen_Parish   it would be nice to have a e.g. Grave template that have

• DateBuried
• GPS Location grave
• CemeteryName
• FindAGraveID
• FindAGraveCemeteryID
• PictureofGrave

that then calls the Event Template with the event Buried and also template FindAGrave to get the FindAGrave inline links<ref>{{FindAGrave|1233}}</ref>

 

As always inside WikiTree do we like to have structure or hardcoded links....

Templates ==>

1. Consistent layout of citations and timelines
2. Easy to manage and change display format
3. An external website that change URL will give less problems
4. Possible to use for comparing data with other sites
5. Possible to use the data in a profile with tools like Histropedia for generating timelines and also for generating maps for a churchyard or a family....

See also:
* Examples Wikipedia Category:Timeline_templates
* Histropedia Timeline of +8000 WikiTree profiles in Wikipedia
* Youtube how to do SPARQL queries and use Histropedia

 

Answer 3

Present our timeline on a map like this Storymap would be cool

http://jackdougherty.github.io/leaflet-storymap/index.html

Big pic

To do this we need structured info

1. Date
2. Location in GPS coordinates
3. Some text
4. Optional
   1. Type of event 
      1. birth, marriage, death...

 

Answer 4

I am a writer.  I like complete sentences and I like them in paragraphs with headings.  I realize after several years on WikiTree that not everyone is a writer, and it's legitimate to make things easier for non-writers.  But templates intended to make things easier for non-writers sound to writers like efforts to deprive them of their central pleasure!  

The challenge for WikiTree is to be a hospitable place for both. I think Wikipedia has addressed that question a bit.  If you'll look at the Wikipedia page for Thomas Jefferson --

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_Jefferson  

you'll see that the body of the page satisfies the writers.  Complete sentences!  Complete paragraphs!  Inline sources!   And to the right side are a series of templates/infoboxes in which facts alone are arranged in order.  Date of birth.  Place of birth.  Beginning of Presidency.  Etc.  But the list of data items is abstracted from the narrative, it is not intended to replace it.

I think they've done well, and WikiTree can emulate them.  Lists of facts are fine -- so long as you don't deprive me of my sentences and paragraphs!

Comments

Jack you miss the point.... 

by having structure you can ALSO do better genealogy... and get timelines, create maps how people moved .....

Compare WIkipedia.... they have Wikidata with all the structures.... but still people can write text in WIkipedia

Example timeline on WikiTree profiles

 

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I hate writing bios. I think it would be great to set the template to "bio" mode (similar to a narrative report in desktop genealogy software) until an actual bio is written, and then the template could be switched to timeline mode or hidden mode or whatever.

But Magnus is right. The most important part of this is that it would provide structured data that could be read by a program.

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Magnus, I think that WAS the point -- I'm fine with adding ways of tracking specific data bits, but I don't want to lose the biographies, which make WikiTree special compared to other sites.  I held up Wikipedia as an example of how both objectives are combined.

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@Jack

Sorry then we agree,.....

I feel WikiTree should focus much much more on good written Bios and less on connecting with mythological kings  ....

Answer 5

I believe, I read where someone mentioned thdy were almost to the point of accessing 'closed' profiles.

In this vein: Did I understand this to mean having something marked private is not going to prevent someone from accessing that personal and marked private information? Because this creates a situation where some elderly family members can be taken advantage of - or blackmailed. I know one of my Great Aunts was told that if she didn't give them money they would publicise some sensitive information. Today, we don't care if a person was born out of wedlock or was a love child, but to these elderly family members it does. To them it's a mark of shame.

Also, the information contained in the profiles  combined with the genealogy are enough that if a person could use thus information and go just a few steps farther, they can steal the udentity, or at tge keast obtain access to users bank/stire credit cards etc. They often just requedt you know the paternal or maternal middle name or last name. This is another readon I'm voncerned about the privacy of profiles remaining just that private.

Profiles that are designated with a privacy level are there because living relatives want them PRIVATE! This is a feature that Wiki-tree boasts. I have Great Aunts that are in their late 80s and estly 90s. This means their parents died over 100 yeas ago and they don't want tgeir immediate family public. This is already difficult with the lowering of mandatory profiles.

Did I understand this correctly? Are the privacy settings in wikitree starting to be made vulnerable with these new software tools and technology? Are we now allowing the development of tools that will access, read, and then publicize or store this information in perhaps on anothers persons server/computer that doesn't work for Wikitree?

Comments

Terri, You're living in a dream world if you think that anything - ANYTHING - stored on a server that is accessible via the internet is private.  Sure, lots of places, including WikiTree, follow best practices regarding information security, but that does not prevent someone with sufficient technical capability from getting past all defenses.

At least WikiTree makes an honest attempt to consider sensitivity of information when deciding what to show or hide from whom, but have you ever read - REALLY READ - the "privacy policy" statements of major corporate and government websites?  For at least 10 years, I have been warning my clients that these are not "privacy statements" - they are statements of all the ways in which the website intends to violate your privacy.

My advice to anyone is that if there is something that you do not want the whole world to be able to find out then do not put it on any computer that is connected to the internet, starting with online banking.  This includes anything that is stored on your own computer (if that computer ever connects to the internet).

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Since I work for the government..  No, I don't live in a dream world. Thanks for politely pointing out how stupid you think I am, cause you could have been much more unkindly. I also know the difference between taking precautions to prevent and to knowingly allow. I still believe the issue of privacy needs to be brought up to remind people there are reasons why people could be marking the profiles private and this should be taken into consideration before wikitree decides to let just anyone pull that data to format something in a different manner.