What do you think of these designs and applications for Research Note Boxes? [closed]

+25 votes
895 views

Hi WikiTreers,

Now that the definition of a Research Note Box is settled and we have style rules in place we can move on to standardizing their usage and improving their appearance.

First, regarding their appearance, here are two drafts:

Draft Design #1

This uses WikiTree's standard design for warning messages. Examples:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/James-1
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Franklin-6
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Coombs-3

You can see how it looks on other profiles by using {{Unsourced 1}} and/or {{Estimated Date 1}}.

Draft Design #2

The second uses one of WikiTree's standard feature box designs. It's right-aligned so that text can wrap around it. Examples:
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Read-3
https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/White-1

We may make it so that text doesn't wrap if you're on a narrow-width screen.

Try this on other profiles with {{Unsourced 2}} and/or {{Estimated Date 2}}

What do you think of these drafts? Do you have a preference between them? What do you or don't you like about them in particular?

Pending Changes

Here are some assorted notes on changes that we're likely to make to existing Research Note Boxes.

1.) {{Estimated Date}} will replace {{DateGuess}} and {{DateGuess2}}. "Estimated date" seems more accurate. It's how we've described them on the policy page. Along with the name change, the orphan category DateGuess will be replaced with an Estimated Date maintenance category.

2.) {{Uncertain Existence}} will probably replace {{Questionable}} and {{Uncertain}}. Questionable and Uncertain seem to be essentially the same; they both place profiles in the "Disputed Existence" category. Neither of the current template titles are clear enough (what is questionable or uncertain?). I like "Uncertain" because it parallels how we use the Uncertain data status indicator.

3.) {{Uncertain Family}} will probably replace {{Conjectural}} and {{SmallConjectural}}. Same explanation as above, i.e. the name needs to be clearer. And a maintenance category needs to be added.

4.) {{UnverifiedParents}}, {{Unverified Father}}, {{Unverified Mother}} are all being deprecated since we have a database status indicator for parents. However, I think we'll want to create {{Speculative Parents}} for when they are more than uncertain. See the page on Uncertain Parents.

5.) {{Uncertain Spouse}} will replace {{Unverified_Spouse}}, just for naming consistency. We don't have a database status indicator for spouses so the Research Note Box may be needed.

6.) Abby started a discussion on maintenance category naming standards. I think the Research Note Box template names should correspond to the category names. Depending on what's decided, this could mean:
a.) {{Needs Emergency Repairs}} (?) as a more generic replacement for {{Euro Aristo Repair Work in Progress}}.
b.) {{Needs Editing}} (?) to replace {{LongProfiles}} (?)
c.) {{Needs Research}} to replace {{Research_pending}} (?) I don't know about this one. The current description of this is "Research Pending: This profile was adopted and needs research. Please cite any sources/corrections." This wording sounds like a disclaimer, i.e. "Don't blame me for this junk, I just adopted the profile!" I can appreciate why a Profile Manager would want to put this disclaimer on there, but I don't think it's appropriate for a Research Note Box. If it is going to be a Research Note Box, what exactly is it for?
d.) {{Needs Citations}} could replace {{More footnotes}}. But maybe this should just be a maintenance category, not a Research Note Box. I don't think it meets the criteria for being "so important that anyone who sees the profile should see the research note, even if the viewing user is not a WikiTree member." Note that {{Citation needed}} is not a Research Note Box. I don't know what it is.

7.) We might want to create a Research Note Box for {{Common Error}}. See the comments from Sharon Ray and Chris Hampson on transcription errors in the previous discussion.

Do you have comments or suggestions for any of the above?

Onward and upward,

Chris

closed with the note: Implementing new design
in The Tree House by Chris Whitten G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
closed by Chris Whitten
Very easy to read, and eye catching without being a "sore thumb"
I like the grey as well.  To me it seems more temporary and implies it should be removed after the issues are addressed.  The yellow seemed more permanent and less likely to encourage others to add to the profile.
Yes!  Thanks, Chris.
Yes! The contrast between the dark grey box and the white text is MUCH better.
Yes that works for me as well - thanks Chris!
I prefer the grey background

A bit late here, but yes the grey is better, perhaps a tiny bit lighter shade of grey, but indeed no longer a '' sore thumb '', perhaps we should ask Dale if and how this could work for him, he was mentioning the problem with the bright colors causing too much eyestrain.. and someone mentioned getting a headache from the bright colors, so perhaps they could give some advice ? 

Chris didn't say what was decided, and (at least for those of us who can't create Templates) it's not discernible from the page Template:Research Note Box.

I tested the template and determined that the choice is the white on gray background.
Chris, et all

What is the boxes for? To help those working on them or the reader viewing Wikitree? The boxes need to be smaller and or c onfined to the edit section.

Using the cat for unsourced wass ok but when we starting throwing the boxes into the viewing page it is a MESS.

Put the smaller boxes on the edit page with [[ Unsourced ]] and

[[ estimated dates ]]  that draw attention, but don't fill the readers page who is just reading or researching.

The tree is for everyone, not just for those building it. Some things the reader wants to know, but is not going to fix.

We want it usable in the present not just for those whi might be descendants of our great grandchildren years from now. Consider what is viewable for edit page separate from the readers view page. Small, but noticable on view page with boxes on the edit page.

I am trying to add profiles to wikitree and am looking at multiplie notices even before I can get it completed. Trying to remove all those is a deterrent to cleaning it up. Before I can enter a family the bio has a notice and in the cat area for no sources. It automatically puts in a bio that saysd the edit page is wrong and I have not even put in one letter.

Jon P Czarowitz ( Czarowitz-1) czarowitz@gmail.com

14 Answers

+13 votes

Regarding the  replacements for Research Note Boxes:

1. Will there be a mechanism for global search-and-replace for deprecated versions of these? Manual replacement could absorb an inordinate amount of volunteer effort on this website. I know that scripts exist for automating this kind of process.

2. I like the description on the page https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Estimated_Dates but I don't think the text displayed on the template (e.g., "The birth date for this profile has been estimated. See the text for details.") does justice to the situations where this template should be used. Many dates are estimated -- for example, if the 1860 census says a person was 30 years old, the birthdate of 1830 is accurately described as an estimate -- but this template is intended for situations where the dates are more like guesses than estimates. Because my life experience has taught me that many people won't click on that "estimated" hyperlink to read the description and many profiles won't have a text explanation of the estimate, I'd like to encourage template wording that (1) describes the estimate as a "rough estimate" (so the template won't start getting added to every profile with a birthdate based on a census age) and (2) incorporates a short description of the specifics of the estimate(s) made in the profile.

The standard text could read "One or more dates in this profile are rough estimates. Specifics:________."  Users would need to fill in the specifics in the template. For example, {{Estimated Dates | William's birth date based on child's birth date minus 20 years.}} would generate "One or more dates in this profile are rough estimates. Specifics: William's birth date based on child's birth date minus 20 years."

by Ellen Smith G2G Astronaut (1.5m points)
I agree with Ellen on this. Estimates and Date Guess are not the same thing. I actually think of Date Guess as an even wilder number. For instance, the person several generations back in the "Visitations" whose parents have no dates and children have no dates. The explanation page says avoid making estimates based on estimates, that's well and good except that Wikitree really wants at least one date on it's profiles. That's where I think Date Guess comes in.
Excellent question (point #1).  I think that would tax even my monumental tolerance for tedious work.
Hi, I agree with Ellen.  Can we use a form of words to distinguish where dates are estimated (based on the source materials) vs a complete guess without anything to back it up?

If we keep both terms, we could explain the difference in the template language.
Alternatively, just use "Estimated Dates" for situations where the dates are complete guesses.   We have the ability to select "about" or "certain" when inputting dates in profiles.
I believe the idea is that the Estimated Dates template should be used when dates are basically guesses, but the word "estimate" has a well-defined meaning that is not consistent with that proposed use of the word.
Hi Ellen. It now says "rough estimate". Regarding replacing the names, e.g. replacing {{DateGuess}} with {{Estimated Date}}, that shouldn't be necessary. We can redirect {{DateGuess} so its contents are up-to-date. We'll just discourage people from using that template name in the future.
Thanks, Chris!!!
+12 votes
I do hope that design 2 is chosen. I agree that design 1 is harder to ignore but it would cause me to move away to another site due to the increase in problems it would cause with my vision. If the profiles cause too much eyestrain then I will just not work on them. I am sure that I am not alone with problems seeing those very bright messages.
by Dale Byers G2G Astronaut (1.7m points)
I also prefer design 2. It's far more readable.
Because of the vision issues, there have been suggestions to change the text color on Design #1 to black. I've also suggested a softer shade of orange. Would those changes make it OK for you?
I also have trouble seeing option 1. I have a visual impairment and when looking at the samples, that gave me an instant headache!
I have trouble seeing option 1 too. I'd be inclined not to look at it, unless i was fresh. But after a few hours online that would just make me ache. And with a screen reader it imparts absolutely no information at all, while the outline does.
Ellen, Summer, and Susan. It is impossible to tell if the color changes would make a difference until they were made but design 2 does work.
The color scheme I described is in use right now on every profile page. It's used to highlight the active tab.
It still is a color, for me a color isn't a problem, for many it's the (bright) colors I guess that gives them a headache or worse, especially if there's more than one template added, so something more neutral, perhaps a light grey or something is better or could work for everyone ?

I think nr 1 is nice and probably would look better on profiles with more than one template, but if it's the color that doesn't work for many members, a bit more neutral perhaps could do the trick, it would give them a more subtle look.
+10 votes

Perhaps we also should keep in mind there are a lot of members that dislike ''clutter'' on top of profiles, and not only because they find it distracting, but for various reasons, as mentioned by Dale and others, as well, sometimes because of health problems like epilepsy or eyesight problems etc., especially if they are  ''sticking out'' , so ''in your face'', and in very bright colors, and were not using or placing them or worse removing them all for this reason only, 

So I think perhaps we should keep them all a bit more subtle and less in your face, design one for example could also work if it was in a much less bright (less in your face) color or maybe no color at all, so if only the text is clear ? 

Because if it's only this template added to a profile it probably isn't so disturbing, but as soon as it's combined with one or more different templates, the way it looks is totally different and not so nice.  

This way people perhaps are going to be more willing to help and use/place them on profiles as well. I know we want them to be noticed but if they are not used or removed by members because they are distracting or gives them a headache or worse, it doesn't help either. 

And just like the unverified parents, we also can check the box uncertain for dates, so perhaps I'm missing something but I was wondering, if we don't need templates for unverified or uncertain parents (because it is said we can check the uncertain boxes), why do we need templates for estimated or date guesses ? If the uncertain box(es) is (are) checked for dates or places and perhaps a note added to the Bio isn't that clear enough as well ? 

 

by Bea Wijma G2G6 Pilot (311k points)
edited by Bea Wijma

Bea, I see no need for the dateguess template for normal uncertainty -- when we're reasonably confident within a couple of years (or instances like this profile -- a woman who died in either 1811 or 1824, depending on whether you use the gravestone or the public record), the "uncertain" parameter works fine. But DateGuess is valuable when the dates are total guesses. It's common for members to reject proposed merges due to what they perceive to be a severe date mismatch because one profile says "about 1730" and the other one says "before 1746." When both dates are rough guesses based on something like the date of the marriage of a person's child, the dateguess template should help people recognize that the dates should not be treated as solid data.

Thanks Ellen indeed I have seen some of those, so merges postponed or rejected for this reason, so yes for those it might help ;)
+4 votes
I like design #2 better. Believe it or not, I actually think #1 is easier to ignore because it looks more like the profile manager area.
by J Kline G2G6 Mach 4 (40.4k points)
+6 votes
We tend to mark these profiles as soon as they are uploaded, not giving the manager/uploader a chance to do his.her part by giving the bio and sources necessary. I realize that since OI have been a member that we ourselves lack in completely doing our part in instructing new members.

We try and are doing a fine job, but it is lacking in spots.

As to the job at hand, Work in Progress is a good one for a newbe and oldster alike when we have a large amount in progress letting others we intend to complete our task.

I had a member that would have scared some of our members. She was going to upload her family's ancestors. (That did not bother me, but the fact that it was 23,000 did. It would have already have been done, but Gedcoms are limited in number. I explained that we wanted ancestors, with birth and death dates and sources to back that up; marriages and children (non-living ), as well. Some sort of biography on each would be nice telling about the person. At this point I await her reply. Her data is factual from church records, but may be lacking in putting it with the fact.

Not giving a new member time to do what is needed before these Boxes and tags are placed on a profile might have a reverse effect. They just might walk off and not come back leaving us with all those ??? profiles.

The smaller the notice the better from my stand point. I recently completed doing work on 133 profiles. These I added temporary Cats to them so someone else would be able to choose to do something better.

I think I have said enough. Consider the manager when putting these tags or boxes on profiles. Remember as I get reminded that we are all volunteers, and could well have other projects to do.

Jon P Czarowitz

(Czarowitz-1)
by Jon Czarowitz G2G6 Mach 4 (44.9k points)
+4 votes
From the comments, I would suggest a melding of the two designs. Try using the style of box from #2, with the positioning of #1... So we get a box that is in outline form, but centered on the page rather than shoved off to one side.

My 2 cents: the templates listed in item 6 in the question sound more like sticky notes for the profile manager(s), rather than something that should be at the level of a Research Note Box -- I don't think any of them should appear except when viewed on WikiTree.
by Kitty Linch G2G6 Mach 4 (43.5k points)
edited by Kitty Linch
Thank you Kitty; I agree that style 2 (box around text) but CENTERED above the Biography area is the best - we had this discussion before when related to Project and Category placement - if we cannot use a LINE to separate the Biography and subsequent Text area, please use Centered boxes ABOVE them.

I also think the Gray box is too "in your face" for a Wiki site like ours.  There will always be errors and not good enough Sources but for all the reasons I see others writing about I don't think we need them so blatantly put up there.  I am not sure of the utility of the {{Citation needed}} template at all - WikiTree does not require in-line sourcing so as long as there are Sources listed that account for the facts mentioned, I believe that is enough.  We are not a professional genealogy site.
+2 votes
I like number one as an alertbox, its loud and clear.
by Joop van Belzen G2G6 Pilot (147k points)
+5 votes

In typical fashion, I'm late to the e-party.

I like both of these designs, but I was wondering if we could maybe combine the two?

I've created an example on JSFiddle for what I think might be best, which is to give the box a thick border and instead of having multiple boxes, having them together in list format. For those who opened the JSFiddle and got confused or don't want to touch it, here's a picture of how it looks:

Keeping it contained to one box will do good I believe, and making the box noticeable but not impossible to get around will be a good thing. So. Thick border, right-justified, all the items kept as a list within said box.

That's my $0.02.

by G. Borrero G2G6 Pilot (125k points)
+4 votes
#2 is much easier on the eyes
by Stephanie Stults G2G6 Mach 4 (42.9k points)
+6 votes
Love the GREY design ! I vote YES on the gray ones (-:
by Maggie N. G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)
+6 votes
Hi Chris, I am not crazy about the grey background on design #1. Somehow it makes the profile not pleasant to look at..

I would go with # two keeping the background white.

OR maybe you could add the yellow or another color like red or blue around design #1 but not having the greyish background. Or have colored letters but white background. Anyway my thoughts on the box design!
by Dorothy Barry G2G Astronaut (2.7m points)
+3 votes
I like option 1 because the gray box stands out from the white background more and therefore makes it harder to overlook.  

I like the idea that we can indicate speculative parents or children.

As we all know sometimes the records are just not clear or have contradictory information so it is good to have a way to flag that.

I would like to see a radio button for "Needs more research" so that it can be found quickly with a search and give WikiTree volunteers who like finding and verifying information an easy way to find the questionable entries.
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (834k points)
+5 votes

I really like the style of Draft #1 (grey box), but I think it's too dark. If you lightened it up one or two shades, it would be a little less contrast but still eye-catching. Also, perhaps bolding the white font will make it easier for some people to read. I did a mock-up image here using a background of #a3a3a3 -- this may be a little too light (click image to see it bigger):

 

 

Also, I was wondering what will happen to profiles that are using the deprecated templates like {{DateGuess}}. How will we go about replacing them with the new templates?

by Julie Ricketts G2G6 Pilot (488k points)
+4 votes

I know I chimed in before, but as I placed an unsourced template this morning, I had to ask myself: What's wrong with the way it is? Make everything consistent with the current unsourced template. Centered bordered (round or square) box, white background, with black text as simplified as possible. I think a colored border would be ok, but there's nothing wrong with the current grey line.

by Anne B G2G Astronaut (1.3m points)

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