Y-DNA, my dads father is unknown, would this test help to find him?

+4 votes
201 views
We have DNA cousin matches in a particular family, is it possible to pinpoint a particular person?

Yaayyy, we finally have a 1st - 2nd cousin match!!

Can someone guide me in placing my dad in the family of this match? I can’t seem to build a tree as we don’t know who his father is yet and I can’t get past that.
in Genealogy Help by Edna Thompson G2G Crew (620 points)
edited by Edna Thompson

4 Answers

+7 votes
You have a better chance of pinpointing a particular person using autosomal DNA. Y-DNA can help you to find the right family, but not necessarily the right man.
by Lynda Crackett G2G6 Pilot (675k points)
Thank you Lynda for your answer. We have done an autosomal DNA test with Ancestry, which is how we have found the cousin matches. I am very new to genealogy and struggling to find where it all fits. My dad is nearly 80 years old and would love to know who he belongs too. It is really important to me to try to find this information for him. I really appreciate your comments and will endeavour to fulfill his wish.

Kind regards, Edna
How close were the cousin matches you found on Ancestry? It would be a good idea for you and your matches to upload your data to gedmatch.com if you have not already done so. That will give you access to more analysis tools and potentially more matches.
Hi again Lynda....the cousin matches were in the 3rd and 4th range, I have added both my and dads tests to gedcom but none of the cousins are showing. I have a family tree showing the cousins and their common ancestors but my limited knowledge prevents me from knowing where dad may fit. I really appreciate your advice and suggestions.

Regards, Edna
Sorry....I meant gedmatch.com
Are you in contact with this family your father matches with? Do try to enlist them in helping you solve your mystery. They may have information that would be helpful, and maybe they will be willing do additional tests.

The Y-DNA test could help. If any of your newly identified male cousins have also done Y-DNA tests, and you find a man who matches your father's Y-DNA, you would have the beginnings of a paternal line for your father.

Investigate your "new" cousins' family trees. I suggest that you put your "new" cousins' family trees on this site and work on researching other family members of those cousins. As you add ancestors, ancestors' siblings and other relations to those people's trees, you may find some new clues.
Thank you so much for your response, it is hugely appreciated.

I have contacted dads matches and have built a family tree around them, they are cousins in the same family line through common great grand parents, through a brothers and his sisters lines. The other cousin is more distant and belongs to the great grandmothers line.

How would I go about putting someone else’s family tree on the site? I don’t know where dad belongs in this tree (yet).

I am very hopeful that this mystery will be solved.
+3 votes
Hi, Edna. The short answer--which Lynda stated--is that yDNA testing, by itself, won't pinpoint a particular person. Unlike autosomal testing, there's no degree of relationship inferred by yDNA testing. Results are presented as a probability of generational distance, an estimate of the number of generations to a shared male ancestor.

That said, if the standard cost of the Family Tree DNA Y-37 test ($149 if purchased through a surname project) is not an issue, I would strongly recommend ordering the test. A few reasons:

1) A set of autosomal DNA results, by itself, can't differentiate between the DNA contributed by the father from that of the mother. Even at close relationship distances like 2nd or 3rd cousins, not having a paper trail for your father's line means it will be more difficult to understand whether the match is on your grandfather's branch, or on your grandmother's. A solid yDNA match to a male cousin when combined with a close autosomal match is bankable, and may give you a touchstone to help begin classifying paternal and maternal lines...especially if that match is a 1st or 2nd cousin.

2) Autosomal DNA is going to give you powerful evidence out to the 1st cousin level, or your dad's grandparents; very strong evidence out to 2nd and 3rd cousins; usable but weaker--and more complex to deal with--evidence at 4th and 5th cousins; and more than likely unusable evidence at 6th cousins and beyond, putting a ceiling of functional use for most people at the 4g-grandparents (my opinion only and some certainly disagree). If your AncestryDNA results are showing no matches closer than 3rd cousin, a yDNA match to one of those more distant cousins can provide important additional evidence. It may not validate the actual relationship, but it would confirm you're on the right track and on the right branch of someone's family tree.

3) Last, and perhaps most importantly, FTDNA is the only major testing company that stores submitted samples for future testing. You'll get two vials and two cheek swabs with the Y-37 test (swab thoroughly, than swab some more!); FTNDA will only open one vial if the sample is adequate to complete the test ordered. The unopened vial goes into long-term storage, but the opened vial is also stored and can be used for subsequent tests.

I have a sample submitted in 2004 that's had 16 separate tests run against it, the most recent last year. FTNDA hasn't yet told me that sample is defunct...though it must be pretty close to it. Larger-scale tests like the NextGen Big Y that sequences most of the Y-chromosome requires more material, but that unopened vial would be enough. Bottom line is that I feel it's important to, whenever possible, get our elderly parents' samples into storage. You can use the initial test results to help with the immediate requirements, and still be able to order a new test in, say, 2030 if you want to. As quickly as genetic genealogy has advanced the past decade, that DNA "time capsule" could prove invaluable to your research and your family's legacy.

A tip: you can also download your raw DNA results from Ancestry, and then upload them to FTDNA to give you more possible matches and additional comparison tools. Same sort of process you went through on GEDmatch. I believe the fee to "activate" the results for matching is $19. If your dad's yDNA test and autosomal results are on file at FTDNA, potential matches will see both and be able to better understand how the two types of DNA correlate.

Good luck with the search!
by Edison Williams G2G6 Pilot (445k points)
Wow....thank you for going to so much trouble to help me in this quest!

I have uploaded dads autosomal test to FTDNA and am looking forward to see what comes of that. I will take your advice and get dad to do the Y-DNA test, it really does make sense to arm ourselves fully. Bit by bit we are going to get there, I will remain confident.
+2 votes
Edison Williams’ answer is hard to beat for its comprehensiveness. His suggestion to do both atDNA (which you have done) along with Y-DNA, is sound. Edison mentioned Y37, an STR marker matches. There is a good chance that this will produce matches with a mix of surnames, but often one surname stands out with the most matches and least mutations from your own line. This could be the same surname as you found from atDNA. If not, those atDNA matches may come from a different line of descent, not the paternal lines. As Edison says, atDNA does not distinguish which family line.

But what I really wanted to add is that there is another type of Y-DNA, in SNP markers. If you get a number of individuals from a family you can get down to within a few generations within a family. Yfull estimate that every SNP difference between matches from Big Y results = 144 years. My family used Y Elite, which in our case get down to about one SNP per two generations, so potentially down to first cousins. Mutation rates are not an exact science, so precision varies.
by Rory Cain G2G6 Mach 1 (12.1k points)
Thank you Rory, I am amazed at how helpful everyone on this site is!

I will definitely investigate which Y-DNA test is the best for us, your information is extremely helpful and I really appreciate your advice.
+1 vote
I like all of the previous answers!  But I want to add a different take, what is more likely to produce useful results, and that is more autosomal tests.

A yDNA test *might* help you identify the right surname, but it also may not, may leave you with too many or too distant choices.  It will still be useful for eliminating or pushing a current candidate, found by your current autosomal test.  If you spend a lot more money, as Rory suggested, your chances are somewhat better, but it still depends on having the right testers, testers from the other family, and the chances of that are far less than with autosomal tests.

I think what would help the most is to find a closer cousin than your "3rd and 4th range", and the usual way to do that is "fish in more ponds".  Most people only test at one site, and if the cousin you're looking for did not test where you did, you are not likely to find them, unless they happen to upload to GEDmatch.  So consider using GEDmatch, taking the 23&Me test, uploading to MyHeritage, and either uploading your Ancestry test to FTDNA or taking the FTDNA Family Finder test.  It's been shown that taking the Family Finder test finds a lot more matches there than transferring your current data to them, but it's your choice.  Ideally, you will find a first cousin somewhere, and that should get you almost home.
by Rob Jacobson G2G6 Pilot (138k points)
Thank you Rob, I am taking your advice and uploading everywhere!

As you say, no point just fishing in a pond when we have an ocean as well. With all the help I have been fortunate to receive from this site I am sure somehow, some way, the breakthrough will surface.

Thank you again for taking the time to advise me in this search.

Related questions

+4 votes
2 answers
497 views asked Oct 1, 2022 in Genealogy Help by Kat Smith G2G6 Mach 1 (11.8k points)
+10 votes
1 answer
527 views asked Sep 2, 2014 in WikiTree Tech by Stephanie Geist G2G Crew (430 points)
+2 votes
1 answer
+7 votes
0 answers
+2 votes
3 answers
+9 votes
4 answers
+6 votes
1 answer

WikiTree  ~  About  ~  Help Help  ~  Search Person Search  ~  Surname:

disclaimer - terms - copyright

...