No marriage certificates in England?

Question

I am researching my maternal grandfather's (Gordon-9430) line in England, and I have come across a problem. The Scottish ancestors all have marriage certificates that handily provide the parental names, which can then be added and followed up. Apparently not so for English ancestors. Despite much searching on Findmypast-UK, the only records I have been able to find are minor entries in BMDs and in censuses where the mother's name is mentioned but not the father's. I have the names of his parents (William Gordon - Maria Gaskell; not added yet), but only the mothers' names of his grandparents (Margaret Gaskell).

Am I missing something? Is there another way to search the records?

Comments

I think all the flags which are appearing on perfectly good answers is down to somebody not realising that clicking on a flag in WikiTree is not like clicking on a 'thumbs-up' in Facebook.  It actually means the opposite of what you meant! i.e. 'this post is spam or inappropriate'.

Answer 1

Birth certificates show both the father's name and the mother's maiden surname.

If you go to the GRO website, it will (usually) give you the mother's maiden surname. 
https://www.gro.gov.uk/gro/content/certificates/login.asp

Marriage certificates in England & Wales show only the father's names (and occupations) - as well as the date, bride & groom etc. although there is a move afoot to get the mother's names put on there as well. (Don't know if this is going to apply to historic certificates.)

So for Frank, I would recommend going to the GRO site, finding his mother's maiden name.

Then go to FamilySearch/FreeBMD/Ancestry/FMP and search for the marriage.

Don't know how this is going to apply to Frank's line, as civil registration certificates only started in 1837 and were not compulsory until 1875.

 

 

 

Answer 2

Look up Frank on the censuses, you should find him with his parents on at least one census, I'd have thought. It should give their birthplace and approximate date of birth on there and you can then search for them individually to find other sources pertaining to each of them. That's how I do it.

Comments

Thank you, Gillian. I have actually done that, and have gotten several results, but no full marriage certificates. I even got a mother-in law listed as Margaret Gaskell (1881 census), but the husband of her daughter was not present and was presumably deceased. Gaskell was probably not the MIL's maiden name. I searched for her too, but I’m getting conflicting results. The Scottish certificates were easier to get.

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Right.... here we have Francis Gordon, 25, single, store manager butcher born Boyd's Croft, Cumberland, living in Hedleys Buildings, Craghead, Lanchester, Durham, England in 1901:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1901/4672-4674/0490&parentid=GBC/1901/0030288010 this is the image of the original on Findmypast.co.uk

And going back in time to before frank is born.....

Hhere we have Matthew Gordon, age 41 born Kirkandrews, Cumberland, blacksmith and  farmer of 12 acres married to Elizabeth Gordon, age 27, born Scotland, with children George, Matthew, Margaret, Elizabeth, William and John, living in Boyd's Croft, Cumberland in 1871:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1871/5213/0163&parentid=GBC/1871/0021352570

In 1881 there is Elizabeth Gordon and five children including Francis (6), with husband Matthew, blacksmith, on the previous page. The kids are all born Carwinley, Cumbria (which is 3 miles from Longtown, Cumbria and 7.8miles from Kirkandrews, where Matthew the father was born):

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1881/4362251/00019&parentid=GBC/1881/0023226171

Then in 1891, Elizabeth is a widow, living with her children William, Elizabeth, John, James and Frank (14) who is a butcher's apprentice, all living at 5 Wagtail Cottages, Lanchester, Durham:

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1891/4095/0127&parentid=GBC/1891/0028072877

As you can see, the stated birth places vary quite a lot on these censuses but if you check the places on Google maps, you will see they are all referring to the same area. Ages and spellings vary quite a lot too, so you have to bear that in mind.

Transcriptions are often riddled with errors, hence my posting the links to the original census images, as you said you were looking on Findmypast.co.uk already. You can also use familysearch.org and then click a button on the census results to go to partner site (Findmypast), which is the search method I use because they have many different sources in one place.

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Looks like you posted whilst I was still typing... you might find something here you hadn't previously noticed though.

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Matthew's death, 1885 Q2

Inferred County:	Durham
Volume:	10a
Page:	163

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1841/0169/0100&parentid=GBC/1841/0015093352 has Matthew (11) with parents, Matthew (45, also a blacksmith) and Dorathey (50) at Moat Common, Kirkandrews, Longtown, Cumbria with 7 Gordon children and a 3 year old with another surname, Mary Graham. Note that ages of people over 15 on the 1841 are rounded down to the nearest 5 years.

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1851/4354684/00188&parentid=GBC/1851/0018199221  has father Matthew (blacksmith and farmer of 12 acres) born Scotland, Dorathy born Kirkandrews, plus 2 children, Francis (27, stonemason) and Matthew (21 apprentice blacksmith), and 2 grandchildren, Mary Graham (13) and Mary Storry (1)

https://search.findmypast.co.uk/record?id=GBC/1861/3911/00877A&parentid=GBC/1861/0019870102 has Matthew and Dalia/Dolie? (presumably Dorathy misspelled/shortened). Living with them is Matthew (the son, 32) and his wife, Elizabeth (24) and 2 kids, George (4) and Matthew (3) in Boids Croft.

 

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You now have enough information here to add two generations on the male side. You can add the wives too, using the mother's maiden name the children were registered with for the first generation and add Dorathy's LNAB as Unknown, if you don't have a marriage for her. You can then go back and add it in later, when you find it.

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Chris, full copies of the registrar's Marriage certificate for England and Wales are only available from the local registery office or the GRO. The registrars are restricted in what they can make available. If the couple were married in a church, the church will have their own full copy. Some church districts have made their copies available online via one of the pay sites. In Maria and William's case I can't find a church copy online.

As aside, the flag on each post is not a like button, it is asking the site management to investigate a post.

Regards,

Tim

Answer 3

The 1911 Census for Francis his wife and daughter Florence living in Craghead, Durham lst his birthplace as Longtown, Cumberland around 1877.

His birth was registered in Longtown in 1876 ( Longtown 10b,/496 q June 1876).His mother's maiden name was Davidson.

Name:	Mother's Maiden Surname:	:
GORDON, FRANCIS	DAVIDSON
GRO Reference: 1876  J Quarter in LONGTOWN  Volume 10B  Page 496

Francis can be found in the 1881 Census (as Frances) living with siblings & parents in Hetton le Hole, Durham. The 1881 Census, 1881:

Name:	Frances Gordon
Age:	4
Estimated Birth Year:	abt 1877
Relationship to Head:	Son
Father:	Mathew Gordon
Mother:	Elizabeth Gordon
Gender:	Male
Where born:	Carningley, Cumberland, England
Civil Parish:	Hetton le Hole
County/Island:	Durham
Country:	England
Street address:	High Downs Quarry Row
Education: Employment status:	View image
Occupation:	Scholar
Registration district:	Houghton Le Spring
ED, institution, or vessel:	1
Neighbors:	View others on page
Piece:	4975
Folio:	7
Page Number:	8
Household Members:	Name Age Mathew Gordon 51 Elizabeth Gordon 35 William Gordon 13 Elizabeth Gordon 11 John Gordon 10 James Gordon 7 Frances Gordon 4

To support this family; Matthew Gordon married Elizabeth Davidson in 1867. (GRO marriage Index, Longtown 10b/517 q March 1867) 

Comments

Thank you, Ron, much appreciated. I'm off to the races, albeit slowly ;-)