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François de Joyeuse (1525)

François de Joyeuse
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Contents

Biographie

François de Joyeuse a épousé en deuxièmes noces Nicole Françoise de Beauvais, fille de François de Beauvais seigneur d'Autruche, dont:

  1. Jean de Joyeuse, seigneur de Champigneulle.[1]

Il était peut-être le fils de Robert de Joyeuse, comte de Grandpré, et de Marguerite de Barbançon.[1] Cette théorie repose sur un acte notarial de 1733 dont l'interprétation reste ambiguë.

Notes

François de Joyeuse n'est mentionné ni par le Père Anselme, ni par la Chesnaye Desbois parmi les enfants de Robert de Joyeuse. Cependant les recherches de Laurent- Yves Gagné et Laurent Kokanosky apportent des éléments convaincants en faveur de cette généalogie. (sans toutefois expliquer de façon satisfaisante l'absence de François de Joyeuse dans les généalogies d'Anselme et de La Chesnaye). Voir en particulier la généalogie manuscrite de Me Hannonet, notaire, page 45.[1]

Biography

He is the son of Robert de Joyeuse and Marguerite de Barbançon.[1]

Françoise de Joyeuse married, as his second wife, Nicole Françoise de Beauvais. They had one child:

  1. Jean de JOYEUSE , seigneur de CHAMPIGNEULLE b: c. 1540

Research Notes

François de Joyeuse does not appear in classical genealogies of the Joyeuse family (he is omitted by both Père Anselme and La Chesnaye-Desbois). Research by Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky tends to support the parentage shown here, though without really explaining the omission of François de Joyeuse in Anselme and La Chesnaye's works. See the genealogy written by Pierre Hannonet, notary, page 45 here:

Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky, Les origines de Philippe Amiot (Hameau), de son épouse Anne Couvent et de leur neveu Toussaint Ledran, (Montréal: MSGCF), vol. 58, no. 1, p. 17-58, English translation provided by the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan, vol. 42, nos. 1-4, 2021.

1733 Notarial Act Parentage Issue concerns by Cawley and rebuttal by John P. DuLong

Charles Cawley of the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy points out an issue with the 1733 notarial act {that names “François de Joyeuse second fils de Robert de Joyeuse [comte de Grand pré]...seignr de Champigneulle”} that Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky uses to establish the parentage of François de Joyeuse "should not be taken at face value without corroboration" and that "the wording of the 1733 act suggests that both the 1556 testament and the 31 Dec 1561 marriage contract of François’s supposed son Jean [I] may contain additional information which throws light on François. Complete copies of these two documents have not been seen, so definite conclusions about François and his parentage would be premature at this time."[2]

A rebuttal was provided by John P. DuLong of the concerns that Charles Cawley had in The Joyeuse Ancestry of the Couvents, published in February of 2023. In this rebuttal he addresses all concerns in a point by point fashion which is available online, along with other transcription of documents which are relevant to his research.[3]

Granddaughter Louise de Joyeuse and asociation with Susanne de Joyeuse, daughter of Foucault de Joyeuse

Gagné and Kokanosky provide proof of the association between Louise de Joyeuse, granddaughter of Francois de Joyeuse, and Susanne de Joyeuse, daughter of Foucault de Joyeuse, Francois's brother:

"27 December 1616, Louise de Joyeuse Acknowledgement of Debts. Appeared in person Clement Bourdon merchant living at Espieds who acknowledged owing and promises to pay on the next feast day of St. Martin to damsel Loyse de Joyeuse widow of the late Charles de Longueval esquire residing at the queue au Boys parish of villegruyes currently staying at Château Thierry here present and accepting the sum of twenty-four livres ten sols tournois"[1]
"As we have seen in the settlement of the dispute on 27 December 1616, Louise de Joyeuse, widow, no longer resided at Épieds on that date. What could have brought her to the Queue-au-Bois, parish of Villegruis, whose co-seigneuresse was dame Suzanne de Joyeuse, as we learn from the acts of fealty and homage “to the king our seigneur” from 18 March 1608? Suzanne de Joyeuse is none other than the cousin of the father of Louise de Joyeuse. In 1616, the latter was then living with a relative. As for François de Merbricq, a record of 8 July 1614 describes him as lord of Chenenge and Queue-au-Bois in part, residing at Escury"[1]

John DuLong's response to the material:

"50. Gagné and Kokanosky point out there is a contemporary point of contact between the two branches of the de Joyeuse family. Louise de Joyeuse, dame of Sivry and wife of Charles de Longueval, resided at the home of Suzanne, daughter of Foucault de Joyeuse, married to François des Marins, seigneur of the Queue-au-Bois (near Villegruis, Seine-et-Marne), after the death of her husband Charles. It is unlikely that Louise would be invited to live near Suzanne’s family unless she was a relative. Suzanne de Joyeuse would be the first cousin once removed of Louise."[3]

Sources

  1. ↑ 1.0 1.1 1.2 1.3 1.4 1.5 Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky, Les origines de Philippe Amiot (Hameau), de son épouse Anne Couvent et de leur neveu Toussaint Ledran, (Montréal: MSGCF), vol. 58, no. 1, p. 17-58, English translation provided by the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan, vol. 42, nos. 1-4, 2021.
  2. ↑ Cawley, Charles. Foundation for Medieval Genealogy Medieval Lands, https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/champorret.htm#FrancoisJoyeusedied1556B
  3. ↑ 3.0 3.1 Acadian and French Canadian Genealogy by John P. DuLong on habitant.org, Joyeuse de Champigneulle Family, accessed 25 February 2023.

See also:

Acknowledgments





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Comments: 4

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Larocque-466 Darrell Larocque
I added the material in the Research Notes which bolsters the case supporting the parentage of Francois as son of Robert de Joyeuse presented by Gagne and Kokanosky and supplemental material by John DuLong in which a clear association is established between the Foucault and Francois de Joyeuse lines.
posted by Darrell Larocque
John DuLong Ph.D.
Today I posted an English translation of the 1733 de Joyeuse genealogy. You can find it at: http://habitant.org/joyeuse/1733_Joyeuse_genalogy_translation.pdf.

I want to thank Paul-Antoine Lavoie for doing this translation. He worked off the transcription done by Baptiste Étienne. I have made some editorial changes, mostly formatting, and added explanatory footnotes. Frankly, I think this is the sort of document that when I return to it in a couple of months I will see more things that need to be explained or clarified. Please do let me know if you spot any mistakes.

I am confident that between my rebuttal and the evidence posted on my website that all of you can now judge for yourself whether or not François de Joyeuse was indeed the prodigal son of Robert de Joyeuse, Count of Grandpré, and Marguerite Barbançon.

We owe a debt of gratitude to Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky for all their hard and exhaustive research they did on the Amiots, Couvents, Longuevals, Joyeuses, and Ancherins families.

Enjoy.

posted by John DuLong Ph.D.
John DuLong Ph.D.
It has come to my attention that Charles Cawley of Medieval Lands has criticized the Anne Couvent royal gateway, in particular, the connection of the Joyeuse de Champigneulle family to the Joyeuse de Grandpré family. I have prepared a rebuttal of his criticism entitled “The Joyeuse Ancestry of the Couvents.” It is posted to https://habitant.org/joyeuse/index.htm. In addition, I have also included the following documents: (1) Roland-Yves Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky, “The Origins of Phillipe Amiot (Hameau), His Spouse Anne Couvent, and Their Nephew Toussaint Ledran,” Michigan's Habitant Heritage, courtesy of the French-Canadian Heritage Society of Michigan; (2) the 1733 Joyeuse Genealogy, found in the papers of Pierre Hanonnet, royal notary, courtesy of the Departmental Archives of Meuse; (3) the 1733 Proxy Letter attached to the genealogy; and (4) a transcription of the 1733 Joyeuse Genealogy and Proxy Letter, done by Baptiste Étienne. This should be all the information you need to judge for yourself the validity of the connection between these two Joyeuse families.
posted by John DuLong Ph.D.
Larocque-466 Darrell Larocque
After reading The Joyeuse Ancestry of the Couvents by John P. DuLong I recommend everyone who is a descendant of Anne Couvent read it. This amazingly well prepared research documents a full throated response to the questions out there regarding the de Joyeuse and des Ancherins lineages from Francois de Joyeuse to include Charles Cawley and others.

I am more than satisfied that what remains at this present moment gives us all confidence to call ourselves descendants of Robert de Joyeuse. Thank you so much John for this gift, and I call it a gift because it is rare to find someone who takes in all of the criticisms and responds with such a mastery of analytical research.

Thank you!!!

I have removed my previous comment as it no longer applies in my mind and made edits which added the rebuttal to the profile.

posted by Darrell Larocque
edited by Darrell Larocque

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