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Guigone (Forez) Bourbon (1182 - 1220)

Guigone Bourbon formerly Forez aka de Forez
Born in Le Forez, Loire, Lyonnais, Rhone-Alpesmap
Ancestors ancestors
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1205 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 38 in Francemap
Problems/Questions
Profile last modified | Created 19 Feb 2012
This page has been accessed 3,207 times.
This profile lacks source information. Please add sources that support the facts.

Biography

Name: Guigone /DeForez/[1]
Birth: ABT 1182, Le Forez, Loire, Lyonnais/Rhone-Alpes
Death: 1220, France. Age: 37-38

Sources

  1. Source: #S004444

Acknowledgment

  • This person was created through the import of Hooker Family Tree.ged on 30 March 2011.
  • WikiTree profile DeForez-3 created through the import of WILLIAMS 2011.GED on Jun 22, 2011 by Ted Williams.
  • This person was created through the import of breesefam.ged on 09 May 2011.
  • This person was created through the import of Acrossthepond.ged on 21 February 2011.
  • This person was created on 12 September 2010 through the import of 104-B.ged.




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Comments: 10

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Here is a source:

https://gallica.bnf.fr/ark:/12148/bpt6k255725q/f814.item.r=guigues.zoom

Trésor de chronologie, d'histoire et de géographie pour l'étude et l'emploi des documents du moyen-âge / par M. le Cte. de Mas Latrie, Louis de (1815-1897).

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
The father of this Guigone (sometimes called Alice) is Guigues III / IV "Branda" d' ALBON, count of Forez from about 1199-1203 when he died on the 4th Crusade. Her mother was definitely the second wife Alice (Alix, Adalisa) NN, not the first wife Assuria/Ascara NN (possibly de SULLY).
posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
Might the profile manager remove the Ancestry.com and GED references from the bio, as per WikiTree standards at present?
posted by Isaac Taylor
I am curious if this family group is a good or bad example of our WikiTree LNAB name policy syntax in action? Given the complexity of Dampierre Bourbon name change, and the handling of de Forez (Forez) etc. It looks weird that this woman's children handle their De prefices differently on this profile.

I am posting this here as from this profile we can see clearly:

  • father is capitalized De in parenthesis.
  • son is lowercase de LNAB (no parens).
  • daughter is lowercase de in parenthesis.
  • her NN mother is wrongly given her husband's LNAB as her LNAB
  • her NN mother's FNAB of Adalisa may have had common nickname Alice
  • her daughter Margaret is sometimes called Alice, which is otherwise confusing
posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
What artifact(s) evidences our asserted birth year and death year? Cawley gives charter evidencing Guigone was alive and betrothed circa 1205/06.

This is circumstantially consistent with our given birth years for her two presently-connected children: son b. "1207" and more famous daughter whose Wikitree profile presently claims was born both "1211" (in bio) and "1216" (in database). This should perhaps be 1217 given we know she was aged 15 on 12 Sep 1232 when married. If true, then this Guigone's daughter must have been born between 14 Sep 1216 and 13 Sep 1217:

https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?d1=13&m1=9&y1=1217&d2=12&m2=9&y2=1232&ti=on& https://www.timeanddate.com/date/durationresult.html?m1=9&d1=14&y1=1216&m2=9&d2=12&y2=1232&ti=on

Probabilistically, this implies a ~80% (79.16) chance she was born in 1217 rather than 1216, i.e. 9-1/2 months versus 2-1/2 months as percentage of 12.

posted by Isaac Taylor
Alice may be explained as a familiar honoring her (the Queen-consort's) maternal grandmother, Adalisa NN who m. de Forez. Pure speculation but might explain the dual name issue with Marguerite vs Alice.

This could also be a "scribing thing" where people actually called her (the daughter) Alice, but in Latin that was written Adalisa by convention. This happened in Anglo-Norman England in this era. I dunno about France though. Lastly, was there any use of Catholic saint's dual names (eg Mary Margaret or Marguerite Adalisa for girls in this era in this family/region? Or are we forced to conclude this Alice vs Margaret thing means a nickname -- or perhaps genealogy error -- and not a dual name? All that said, while I am no expert, it seems centuries early for this Guigone to have actually given her daughter two names.

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
Can a Project admin please correct the marriage location to removed quotes. Thanks. Profile is project protected. Working on Location cleanup this week.
posted by Marty (Lenover) Acks
Since you have no documentation, just a tree from Ancestry I will add another - http://www.genealogics.org/pedigree.php?personID=I00014215&tree=LEO (he does give sources (Europäische Stammtafeln, J.A. Stargardt Verlag, Marburg, Schwennicke, Detlev (Ed.). III/1 51 & The Plantagenet Ancestry, Baltimore, 1975 , Turton, Lt.Col. W. H., 4, 202) , which indicates parents are unknown.
Source is royal charter for double marriage:

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/chamdampjo.htm#PhilippaMahautDampierredied1223

See (b) for Philippa AKA Mathilde who married this Guigone's brother:

"Philippe II King of France confirmed the conditions of the proposed marriages between "Guigue fils du comte de Forez, et une fille de Guy de Dampierre" and "Archambaud, fils de Guy de Dampierre, et Guigone, fille dudit comte de Forez" by charter dated [10 Apr 1205/1 Apr 1206][65]."

posted by Isaac Taylor

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