Why is there a template to link to the FamilySearch tree?

Question

After seeing {{FamilySearch}} being used I discovered the request to create it and now I'm asking myself, if we really want to have this possibility to link to FS tree records?

1. we have https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:FamilySearch_Connections which will link the profile with a FamilySearch ID that allows generation of hints from it. Will this also work for profiles only having the template? Will those connections then be created automatically?

Using that process will create a link in the research section on the right side of the profile.

2. FamilySearch should not be used as a source itself in my opinion.

While writing this I discovered that the template exists for a year already, but I still would raise awareness for these questions.

Sorry if this sounds grumpy or aggressive, it's not intended that way.

Answer 1

Template is an external link template and there are many links to FamilySearh trees.

There are many External link Templates linking to FS. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Links_to_FamilySearch

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Template:FamilySearch_Record has over 500K uses and is usually used for linking to records.

Comments

We should not be encouraging people to use FS trees or profiles as sources. 

The records attached to profiles are the sources, only after they have been checked to make sure they are accurate for the person's profile. 

Just yesterday and definitely not for the first time. I found sources attached to a FS profile that are entirely and very obviously incorrect. 

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As Aleš mentions, these are External Link templates. Their sole purpose is to provide a way to link to a specific FamilySearch entry. This template, and the others like it, are not intended to serve as a complete source citation, but rather to enhance them.

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Among all the different reports, is there one that shows how many profiles have only this type of non traditional source?

That information would show how many PMs misunderstand the use of a non traditional source, not actual source.

I see no difference between this and a link to an Ancestry or other online tree.

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And we also have a template to link to ancestry tree.

Here you can see the number of profiles using the template (last column) for all external links.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Automated:Template_Index_Type#External_Link_.2845.29

But that is only a fraction of all links, since Link templates are relatively new and cca 10 times more profiles use a URL Link.

Actually the factor varies among links. For FindAGrave it is at 2, for Ancestry it is at 8 and for FamillySearch it is at 20 times.

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I'm a very casual participant on WikiTree who just discovered FamilySearch, to give you an idea how untutored I am. I embrace the wiki philosophy -- be bold, make a small change and someone else can build on it, etc.

I've been putting FS links in profiles, with the intent that I or someone else could port more extensive info from FS as time allows. By "We should not be encouraging people to use FS trees or profiles as sources," do you mean 

- I shouldn't put the links in here at all unless I have time to consult primary sources?

- Links to FS profiles or trees are OK but not in the Sources section?

I'd hope there's not a high barrier to constructive edits, even as simple as linking a FS page for later digging. IMHO the real key is exercising good judgment, treating something like FS itself as a secondary or tertiary source and understanding it's not a primary source.

But I'll go with whatever the community deems appropriate.

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Don't use the FS or Ancestry trees as "sources" Philip, but they're fine to post under a See Also section or to use for hints on where/what to look for. I use them a lot to find out what the father/mother's name is supposed to be, then go look for sources for those people to see if I can link them up via actual sources.

Just not trustworthy on their own without supporting sources, is all.

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Philp, I agree with Jonathan.

Online family trees are not sources, they can have valid and correct sources attached to them. So check the sources to make sure they are correct/accurate for the person. And then attach the actual record source to the person profile on WT.

This means checking that names, locations, relatives, and dates match..

In the example I gave above the only fact that matched the profile to the source was the name. It did match the name on the record, but they were born in different countries about 50 years apart.

What does happen is that someone looks at the link to the online tree and assumes that someone else has already done the research.

Everything can get very mixed up very quickly especially with common names.  And in families with multiple children who when they have their own kids, name them after the same set of grandparents or other ancestors.

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Thanks for clarification, Aleš. Are there currently any synchronisation, reporting, suggestions etc. between the FS person templates and the FamilySearch Connections?

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No. I am not sure on how to validate the data for 10M connections.

Answer 2

For what it's worth, I kind of agree.  Most of the FamilySearch templates on the page that you've linked to do not constitute a traditional 'source' in the sense of a record or similar.  However, they do point to a source in the WikiTree definition of the word, which (if I recall correctly) is "where I found this information".  Whether or not the WikiTree definition of a 'source' needs to be revised is maybe another issue.
I would encourage people to use the full citations that FamilySearch provides for each record.  There's also a feature on WikiTree BEE to help people get all of the citations from a FamilySearch profile, so I would also encourage the use of that.

Comments

Most of the FamilySearch templates on the page that you've linked to do not constitute a traditional 'source' in the sense of a record or similar. 

That is correct, and they are not intended to serve as a source. They are a way to either:

• Expand on source citations by creating links directly to a page on FamilySearch
• Provide an easy way to link to 'other information' that is not used to source the profile.

I think the true issue is that some members are using these external link templates incorrectly or have a general misunderstanding of how they should be used and applied to profiles. That is another issue entirely, not the fault of the templates themselves.

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Sort of reiterating from upthread -- please keep in mind a lot of us are VERY causal users. A common use case  isto link to FS in hopes that someone else (or maybe future us) can do a better job of digging. I'd be sad if that use case were truly discouraged.

Answer 3

This isn't an answer, rather just a point of information of something interesting I found. Since FS doesn't allow GEDCOM downloads, it appears there are one or more 3rd party scripts to do it:

https://neeleyops.com/family-history/2017/04/17/FamilySearch-GEDCOM-Export.html

Sorry if I'm abusing the StackExchange-like Q&A format here -- not sure where to put this comment for anyone looking for FS tools.

Comments

Thanks for sharing. Maybe ask a new question by re-posting this information instead to attract more people with a more precise headline. I used to use https://github.com/Linekio/getmyancestors , btw.