English to Dutch given names colonial New York

Question

Hi all,

Does anyone know if there is a Dutch equivalent to the female name Elenor / Elinor / Eleanor?

I've an ancestor who was married in 1763 in New York and her name is recorded as Elenor Paulding.

Other given name spellings are Elinor / Eleanor and surname spellings Paalding / Poldang.

Answer 1

In WikiTree we document people by the name and name spellings they were recorded with, which are sometimes different from the name that appears for them in a published genealogy or a family tree. It does get confusing  when a person's name was recorded in documents written in two different languages, or when the person was born into one culture (in this case Dutch) and transitioned into another culture (in this case English) during their lifetime.

The Dutch name that corresponds to the English name Eleanor or Elinor is Neeltje (also spelled Neelje, Neeltie, Neltje, and probably other variants). Nellie and Nelly are nicknames potentially associated with both the Dutch and English names.

The woman you refer to has a profile at https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Paulding-92 . I see from her husband's profile that there is a source for her marriage (in the Reformed Dutch Church of New York, which means the Reformed Dutch Church in Lower Manhattan) that calls her Elenor Paulding. That single source citation does not give us a basis for determining her LNAB. The names Pawling, Paulding, and Paling (plus other variants) all appear in early New York records, and it is likely that they represent at least two different families. This is just one reason why we don't "standardize" name spellings here -- instead we document what we see in the records. (Please refer to Help: Name Fields and the New Netherland project naming conventions at Project: New Netherland Settlers.)

Comments

I forgot to mention other variants including Neeltjen and Paaling, Paeling, and Palding.

Answer 2

In Dutch church records the spelling of names was not standardized and unfortunately the Dutch person recording an English name gave it their best “guess” in spelling it phonetically  

Many people in that time didn't read or write (much less spell), and the records were created by Dutch clergymen who were more literate than most people but tended to spell names phonetically as they heard them. 

This resulted in many English names being mis-spelled in the Dutch Church records. 

You don’t have to let some misspelled name by a Dutch cleric become the actual spelling of your ancestors name. 

For instance I have a grandfather whose English name is Edward but in the Dutch records it is misspelled about 6 different ways. The most common misspelling is Eduard or Edewaert. 

I know his name is spelled Edward so I am not going to perpetuate a misspelling 100 years later. 

Answer 3

Thank you both for the responses!  And yes, this is why first names are not standardized.  

Regarding this surname, I've seen the following in various records, refering to the same family:  Pawling, Paaling, Paling, Pauling, Paelden, Palingh, Paulding (most common in English sources), Paeldin, Pauldin, Pauwldin, Pauldinck, Palding, and Pauwldingh

The original church record does record her name as Elenor Paulding

I was curious if the name Elenor/Elinor/Eleanor was represented by another name within the Dutch community of the day because of several records regarding this family.

I've found her listed as a child of Joost "Joseph" Paulding and Susanna White (& variants) in 2 locations:

1. https://www.google.com/books/edition/The_History_of_the_Treman_Tremaine_Truma/PThZAAAAMAAJ Pg. 838, 841

That source, however, doesn't give her baptism date as it does for all the other children.

2. A family history created by a SAR member several decades ago:

That family history gives Elenor's year of birth as 1743.

Then, there are 2 sisters who are baptized around the time Elenor was alleged to be born.  All have the same father and mother (as stated above), all born in NYC and baptized in the same Dutch Reformed Church.

1. Susanna Paling (Paulding), baptized 30 Aug 1741 - https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/236939:6961 Pg. 2

2. Catharine Paulding, baptized 30 Sep 1744. - https://archive.org/details/historyoftremant02trem/page/n115/mode/2up?q=Paulding Pg. 1166m

I've yet to find either sister marrying or having children.

So, I began to wonder if perhaps, one of these sisters was in fact Elenor and that later in life she simply referred to her second given name (I believe the Dutch in this time generally didn't have a "middle" name, but often time had more than one first name).

Either Susanna Elenor Paulding or Catharine Elenor Paulding.

Does anyone know the early NYC Dutch records can be viewed in their original state (not transcribed/excerpted/summary, etc)?

Comments

The Tremain genealogy and that SAR member's writeup are both secondary sources that we do not regard as reliable.

Original church records are elusive, so most of the time we seek to work with the most reliable transcripts that can be found. Sometimes these are handwritten transcripts, but much of the time I think the most reliable transcripts are printed transcripts that were created in decades past by people who devoted themselves to study of the records -- and consulted with one another about details of the records and record transcripts they were trying to decipher. This includes volumes of records published by the Holland Society of New York, the New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, and some specific churches, as well as many articles in genealogical journals.

The New Netherland project has assembled and maintains a large collection of information to assist WikiTree members in locating New Netherland church records, mostly in online sources. See this link.

Ellen Smith - Project Leader for New Netherland Project

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From the Tremain source, I infer that the woman you ask about is thought to be the daughter of Joost Paulding-48, whose children are supposed to have been baptized in the Reformed Dutch Church of New York (but I would also look for the family in the Old Dutch Church at Sleepy Hollow).

The immigrant ancestor of this "Paulding" family is supposed to be Joost Paulding, born in Cassant in the Netherlands. As such, the family is completely unrelated to the Pawling family of New Netherland that is descended from a Henry Pawling, an officer with the English army that occupied New York.

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I found the baptism record for Neeltje Paalding. Baptism date of 1 Jan 1744 perfectly matches the estimate that she was born in 1743. Her father was Abraham Paalding, a son of the Netherlands emigrant Joost Paulding (but not the son identified as her father in that Tremain genealogy).

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An additional possible source of confusion that Henry Pawling-1 (the English army officer) married Neeltje Roosa, and they had some grandchildren named Eleanor (by Dutch custom, children were named for their grandparents). But I see no instances of Abraham Pawling in the early generations of that family, making it very unlikely that the Pawling family included an Abraham who had a daughter Neeltje.

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Hi Ellen,

Thanks for all the information regarding these early Dutch settlers (and the English Pawling as well).  I really appreciate it as I'm really just starting out understanding early Dutch immigrants to the U.S. and how to research them.

I've seen that baptism record for Neeltje Paalding (father Abraham Paalding) as well, but assumed (yes, I know, not good) a female named "Neeltje" wouldn't later be called Elenor.

I spotted a couple of errors in that family history book, but in the beginning of trying to answer this question of who "Elenor (Paulding) Wilson"'s parents were, it was all I had as some kind of starting point.  That, as well as that derivative source book may have lead me down the wrong path of who her father was.  And yes, my original thought was that [[Paulding-48|Joost Paulding Sr (abt.1706-1786)]] was her father.

With your thoughts, I now know that I need to consider [[Palding-2|Abraham Palding (bef.1697-)]] and potentially (probably?) "Elenor's" father.

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That Tremain book was a good place to start. It provides great clues about the Paulding family, but it's not a reliable source.

Since the first Joost Paulding was a relative latecomer to New Netherland, there isn't much chance of confusing his kids with other Paldings. And the baptism record for Neeltje Paalding is such a good match to her estimated age (a child baptized on Jan 1 1744 was almost certainly born in 1743) that there is little doubt that it's the right girl. I've already connected your "Elenor" profile to Abraham as her father.

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Thank you, Ellen.  Your help with this inquiry is greatly appreciated!

Answer 4

Since I am not personally an expert in the translation of Dutch given names, I like to find a published source when I ask myself what a Dutch nickname or pet name represents. There are a few sites to consult. I personally prefer Name Doctor because it is a Dutch site, not a wiki filled with the personal opinions or gut feelings of non-Dutch speakers.

According to Name Doctor, Neeltje means Cornelia, not Eleanor. I found additional Web sites that give Cornelia as a translation of Neeltie, so this meaning appears to be correct.

https://www.name-doctor.com/meaning/neeltje

The above site gave an etymology for Eleanor, but not the Dutch equivalent. 

https://www.name-doctor.com/meaning/eleanor-1

I found a reliably good answer on the site Parents.com, in the baby names section! Here is a citation. More or less the same etymology, although there seems to be disagreements about Eleanor meaning "light" or "old north."

Nora

• Origin: Dutch, German, Swedish, English
• Meaning: Light
• Alternative Spellings & Variations: Noor, Noortje, Eleanor, Ellen, Nore, Nori, Nóri, Noralee
• Famous Namesakes: Nora Ephron, American film director and producer; Norah Jones, American singer-songwriter
• Peak Popularity: Nora was a popular name in the U.S. in the early 1900s. After falling out of favor for several decades, it has seen a strong resurgence, cracking the top 100 in 2013 and hitting a peak at No. 28 in 2017.2

https://www.parents.com/dutch-baby-names-meanings-and-origins-5090529

The Name Doctor does have entries for the Dutch equivalents above. It confirms that Noor, Noortje and Leonoor corresponds to Eleanor in Dutch.

https://www.name-doctor.com/meaning/noor-1

https://www.name-doctor.com/meaning/noortje

https://www.name-doctor.com/meaning/leonoor

If you are looking for an Eleanor in Dutch records, I would not restrict my search to Nora, Noor, etc. I would look for Helens (and Dutch variants of Helen) as well (e.g. Hillechien). There may be a slight difference in meaning, etymologically, between Eleanor and Helen, while both have Ellen as a variant. Eleanor means "light" and "torch," while Helen means "bright," "torch," etc. Let's face it, there is a bit of an overlap between the meanings even though some sources are adamant that the two names are quite different in origin (e.g. https://thecontentauthority.com/blog/ellen-vs-helen ). The root of Eleanor (Germanic or Greek) is not clear, and some sources indicate that Eleanor might actually stem from the Greek Helen: https://sanctanomina.net/2015/06/06/eleanorhelen-after-all/ 

I figure that the folks in the early modern period didn't have access to the Internet and may have replaced Eleanor by a variant of Helen once in a while, especially if they occasionally heard the nickname Ellen used to designate the person. It's worth keeping an open mind while looking for missing female sibling that may only be named by her first name along with her husband's surname.

https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/english-versions-of-dutch-first-names/ 

Please note that the equivalents given by Yvette Hoitink don't always match those given by the Name Doctor, for some reason, but she does answer to a comment that Neeltje means Cornelia.

Here is another source published on Wikitree:

https://www.wikitree.com/photo.php/8/84/Equivalent_Dutch_Frisian_and_English_Baptismal_Names.pdf

Comments

Hi Marie-Pierre,

Thank you for the reply and the information you found regarding this question.  I appreciate it.  It's all really fascinating to me to trying and make connections to these earlier ancestors.

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Yes, it truly is fascinating. The challenge makes this research all the more exciting.

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This is interesting. This matter of connecting given names across languages and cultures is not an exact science. My knowledge of Dutch names and their English equivalents is based on what I have seen in numerous records of "New Netherland" people in the 17th and 18th centuries, combined with "guides" to New Netherland names that I have seen -- for example, Lorine McGinnis Schulze's guides at http://www.olivetreegenealogy.com/nn/names.shtml and https://freepages.rootsweb.com/~hotalingz/genealogy/dut_ref.htm . I do not rely on baby name books or blogs.

I have a great deal of respect for Yvette Hoitink. Her list of names appears to be excellent, but I have a hunch it reflects the name transitions undergone by 19th century or later Dutch immigrants to the United States. It stands to reason that naming fashions had changed over the centuries, and I note that her list at https://www.dutchgenealogy.nl/english-versions-of-dutch-first-names/ includes some English names (such as "Casey") that I cannot imagine seeing in the 1700s, as well as some Dutch names that I've never encountered in New Netherland.

Neeltje is not a super-common name in New Netherland church records, but it appears with some frequency. I have also run across girls recorded with the name Cornelia (although whenever the name "Cornelia" appears in a record transcript it is necessary to ask whether it might be a bad transcription of "Cornelis") and I know I have seen at least one instance of a New Netherland girl named Leonora who later shows up as Eleanor, but when I have seen  "Neeltje" turn up with an English-sounding name in later records, it has usually been a form like "Nellie" or "Elinor."

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Yvette Hoitink's site is a great source to know regarding Dutch genealogy.  Thanks for pointing it out!

I believe I've found all of Neeltje "Elinor" (Paalding) Wilson's siblings.  I've added their profiles as well as the marriage record for their parents, Abraham Palding/Paalding and Marytje Cosyn [[Cosyn-6|Marytje (Cosyn) Paalding (abt.1700-aft.1744)]]

What is even more interesting to me is that her sister's baptisms were recorded with names that appear (to me anyway) to be more Anglicized:  Catharina, Maria and Rebecca.  Then, when it came time to baptize (what turned out to be) their last child, she is recorded with a much more Dutch name.

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My understanding of Dutch names like Neeltje is that it is a pet name, or a nickname (like Dick is to Richard). So, Catharina can be found in Dutch baptismal records, as well as its corresponding diminutive, Tryntje. Maria's diminutive is Marritje. In the case of Rebecca, I am not sure what the diminutive is. The name Rebecca is in the Bible, so the Dutch must have used it once in a while, not just the English.

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Abraham's Will, dated 14 Sep 1762, the year prior to Elenor's marriage, he calls his daughter "Nelly Palding", 13th line up from the bottom on pg. 455:  https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-L99K-BCY3

Her father refers to her 3 older sisters by their married names, Nelly isn't married until 22 Nov 1763, so she still has her maiden name.

I believe this is further confirmation that you were right Ellen, the Neeltje that was baptized, later married with the first name Elenor.

Neeltje -> Nelly -> Elenor.

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I wonder if the English scribes of the time might have known someone by their anglicized nickname (Nelly in this case) and made assumptions about what the full given name was when they created written entries. If the name Eleanor only appears in one record, it could fall under clerical errors.  

Also, is it possible that descendants of Dutchmen might have started forgetting certain parts of their culture because of assimilation in the 1700s? I am asking the question without great confidence because there were reportedly Dutch speakers in New York State as late as the 1800s according to comments that I read in a relevant Facebook group.

If I wrote a genealogical report after doing a reasonably exhaustive research in the relevant areas for missing BMD records (especially for a Cornelia Palding), I would write that Nelly was probably the Neeltje in that baptismal record even though Neeltje stands for Cornelia, not Eleanor. Or something like that.