Anyone having expertism/knowledge about birth registrations of Jewish people in the pre-1811 period in The Netherlands?

Question

Hi All, 

I came along a long list of a family, Gedcom uploaded in 2010, most orphanated and without sources. Roots in Amsterdam so I thought I dive into that as it is not so hard to find sources in Amsterdam.

My problem is to find sourced birth dates and death dates on the pre-1811 profiles. Now for almost all family members  I can find "ondertrouw"/subscriptions of intended marriage docs, but not even one baptism. According to a few docs and the FNAB and LNAB indicates it is a Jewish family, member of the Dutch-Israeli church in Amsterdam. Obvious they were not registered/baptized those days? 

Anyone having knowledge about how children were registrated those days with a Jewish religion in The Netherlands? And what about funerals?

Thank  you for taking time.

Kind regards from The Netherlands,

A. 

Comments

Hi Astrid,

These are the pre-1811 birth-, circumcision- and burial registers available at the Stadsarchief Amsterdam. No indexes I guess, and also much Hebrew or Portuguese...

So have fun!

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Dank je wel Jan.  Blik geworpen. Slechts in een enkel boek vertaling in het Nederlands. Haahaha. 

Thank you Jan. Took a peek but most in Hebrew or Portuguese yes..... 

Hebreeuws, eh, lees je toch van rechts naar links? 

Lieve groeten, 

Astrid

Answer 1

The Resources list on the Jewish Roots Project has a few places to look:

• "Jewish Dutch Records: Jewish marriages and records from the Amsterdam archive 
• The Centre for Research on the History of Dutch Jewry (links to archives, etc.)
• Joods Nederland (hundreds of links to Dutch-Jewish sites, in Dutch)
• Hebrew and Judaic Manuscripts in Amsterdam Public Collections, Volume 1 (geredigeerd door Lajb Fuks,Renate G. Fuks-Mansfeld) —Collected by Bea Wijma

Comments

Thank you very much Robert. I see a lot of wonderful info there!

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Robert on my  search in The Netherlands at the Amsterdam StadsArchief they linked me to this page: Nederlandse Kring voor Joodse Genealogie I do not think it is added to the Project as source, but worth to do. I am sorry it is only in Dutch (yet) but for any translation I (and many of the DRP) will be happy to help. 

Very interesting page you find under the header "onderzoek" = research. 

There are pages giving Jewish-geneallogical info per town/village/city here

There is a great page to search and to find graves of Jewish people from Amsterdam very easy at: De Joodse Gemeente Amsterdam,  Nederlands-Israelietische HoofdSynagoge. 

There is also a list of many used abbreviations on gravestones here

I hope this is of any help to the Project. 

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I learned today the difference between the Portogueze-Israelic and the Nederlands-Israelic people and why there is more and better info/documents on the Portogueze-Israelic people than on the HighGerman ones. It is again all about money.

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Thanks, Astrid, I’ll add these to our resources.  We have a couple of fairly active Project members interested in Nederlandse Jewish research.

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A site with more advanced search options  (with English interface too) for the Muiderberg Cemetery is available at dutchjewry.org, making over 22,000 entries accessible.

Answer 2

According to the StadsArchief Amsterdam, records of Portuguese Jews are on their website:

https://archief.amsterdam/indexen/doopregisters_1564-1811/handleiding/index.nl.html

On the FamilySearch catalog are some records for the Hoogduits Jewish community.

The names in this family sound more Ashkenazi than Sephardic, so it is more likely than belonged to the Hoogduits than the Portuguese community.

Comments

Very coincidently, just minutes after writing my response above someone asked me to help them with a Jewish family in Amsterdam that moved to England. Their names in English are Henry Franks and Sarah Hyams, and they were both born in the 1790s in Amsterdam. Their first child was born in 1827 in East London. Unfortunately I was not able to find either a birth or marriage for them. Whether they married in England or the Netherlands is unknown. I would appreciate any help with this

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Yes it seems they belong to the Nederlands-Israelitische kerk.

The Portuguese are indexed but the StadsArchief says at their site that information about the Hoogduitse Joden are not in the indexes because they are in Hebrew. They advise to consult of Jits van Straten "Besnijdenissen en geboorten in Amsterdam 1697-1811 (Amsterdam, 2004).

So no answers yet but more knowledge anyway!

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I will have a look into Henry and Sarah, Abm. Although I know you re a precize researcher so I m not very hopeful. :)

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Abm can you link me to the right Sarah and Henry as there are mulitple profiles with those names. Thank you.

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This is the only Hyams I can find in this site. Mabey a sister or a daughter? No Franks.

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In this book online, The making of Machester Jewry, both Henry Franks en Sarah Hyams are mentioned and described. No clue if these are the same persons. Maybe there is more info for you. 

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I have some Hyams relatives, the oldest known to me is Lawrence Mitchell Hyams, of London.  Look at https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3QS7-89FL-9JVQ?i=223&cc=2228170  There’s a Charles Franksat the same address.  Might be nothing, but...

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Thank you to those who have helped. Henry Franks and Sarah Hyams are not on WikiTree. They are on an Ancestry tree called the Loel family tree. The only known sources in which they appear are 1841-1871 UK Censuses.

I was thinking that Hyams could be Hijmans?

Overall, I accept that with the information we have the chance of finding a birth or marriage for them in Amsterdam is small.

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I think I tried every possible spelling of one or both names into the search bar of the Indexen of Amsterdam........ no luck.

Do you have any names of parents?

Yes I also have been thinking of Heijmans or Haye but that is why I searched also on only intials.

Also at Openarch, WieWasWie, Noord-Hollands Archief, FamilySearch and Archieven.nl.  I am sorry Abm.

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Abm, check your messageboard.

Groetjes Herman

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Sorry if I am misunderstanding something, but could you please explain how that information relates to Henry Franken and Sarah Hyams? I'm not knowledgeable on the Jewish equivalents of Dutch and English names.

P.S. I think we are related, I have Overmars from around Raalte/Dalfsen/Wijhe in my pedigree.

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It is the onely one in Dutchjewry that has the name Hyam, between 1700 and 1900, and yes whe might be related, you can check out your Overmars side at www.overmars.org.

There are alle the Overmars family's at the Overmars(ch) Foundation

Answer 3

Hi Astrid,

You can Find a lot of this family at:www.dutchjewry.org.

Groetjes Herman

Comments

Dank voor al je hulp Herman!

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Graag gedaan Astrid, daar doen we het hier toch voor