Ideas for making European Aristocracy profile easier to track down?

+8 votes
190 views

The European Aristocracy Project has done *fantastic* work in merging profiles, setting standard LNABs, and removing the mythology that often follows these ancestors around from family tree to family tree. In order to help maintain the great work they do on the project, some of we other project leaders were thinking that we might need a new way to make the profiles easier to find.

Many of these ancestors are known by many different names, titles, birth place-based names, and aliases. That can make it hard to find them when we try to stick to certain standards in our naming guides, and only have so many name fields-we want to use what they used when they lived. This is not up for discussion right now.

What can we do to make them easier to find is what we are trying to tackle.

One idea I had was an index that is similar to a cookbook. If you search for chicken and vegetable casserole in a well-indexed cookbook, you end up being able to find it under chicken, casserole, and vegetables, plus possibly suppers or pot luck. If we could create a index-it would be huge, though, and that may be a draw back-that indexed the aristocracy by their title, every known alias, their house name, their place of birth or where they ruled, we may be able to cut down on new duplicates and make merging easier. We would have to make sure all those aliases are included in the biography somewhere, too, so when someone thought they had found who they were looking for, they could confirm it.

That is just one thought we had-this is more of a thread to think out loud. What ideas do you have? Categories? Free-Space Profiles with links?

Even more experienced users often have trouble finding some of these profiles because there are so many names associated with them.

in Policy and Style by Abby Glann G2G6 Pilot (734k points)
I'd rather see them fix the search functionality so that nicknames and other last names and Title/Prefix/Suffix are (optionally) used in the search/match functions, and then keep that information up to date in the profile page. Creating and maintaining a new search index would be a very large task, and there will likely be ongoing mismatches between profile data and indexed data unless some automated indexing is maintained.

Another possibility - provide an automated summary page of every PPP profile - we'd have to know which project a profile is associated with (based on category?). There may be some PPP profiles without the Category markers.

It would be nice if the category profile list page displayed the actual birth/death years, instead of the decade, if the profile is privacy green or white (open or public). Might make it easier to identify a specific older ancestor.
If Bob had replied as an answer I'd give this answer an upvote.

5 Answers

+4 votes

If such an index were to be created, potentially we could leave out some of those search terms in favour of categories for them. For example, these profiles are already categorised by house (eg. Category:Hannover).

Some work has also been done on splitting them up by place, but right now I don't think it's very consistently applied. Eg. there are categories like Spanish nobility and Prince of Wales. Maybe a collaboration between the European Aristocrats and Categorization projects is in order to get that system set up properly.

by Liander Lavoie G2G6 Pilot (454k points)

The EuroAristo project has recently completed an 'overhaul' of categories to make the names more consistent and organize them better.  You can see a list of 'houses' here:  http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:European_Noble_Houses and a list of countries (where you can click on the link to see various houses) here:  http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:European_Nobility .  These lists are by no means complete, but it is a good foundation on which to work.

Darlene - Co-Leader, European Aristocrats Project

0 votes
there are many ways to track,aristocracy or nobility.Millinium Files,England
AGBI.published books on such,historic record.It is a treachorous task.Much

of the info you find is in error.All the informatio you find is in the term Circa.

Circa means they know this person lived ,but not dates.Never take any info off

trees until you verify it.Even with the finest scrutiny you will make mistakes.You

will find a son that is born before his father is born.Have fun!!!!!
by Wayne Morgan G2G Astronaut (1.1m points)
The term circa is really just a fancy way of saying 'about' and it can give some idea of when someone was born or died.  What isn't always clear is what time span 'circa' might mean.  If for instance someone is said to be born circa 1040, does that mean, plus or minus 1 year?, 2 years?, 5 years?  Giiven that Wikitree wants a birth or death date with each new profile, a circa date is better than nothing.
+6 votes
As a Librarian by profession, I have been also wondering about this issue and how do you index all these royal and noble individuals.  I think there has been a tendency to try to make the profile details 'read' correctly but maybe we just need to think of it as a place to put index terms and use the biography to record the name as it should read.  For instance I would not include the pre-surnames - von, van, of, etc in any of the surname fields because I think when people want to look up a name they would look for Hannover not von Hannover or of Hanover.  

I agree with Lianne that using a category or categories would also be a big help.

There is a bit of an index already in the EuroAristo pages, of names in various languages and the one being used in Wikitree bolded.  Maybe we need to expand that and make it more prominent?
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (620k points)

I just recently got this completed (by request!).  You can view a list of European houses here:  http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:European_Noble_Houses and a list of links for nobility by country here:  http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:European_Nobility

0 votes
I would have to Say Categories would be the best idea. You could break it up based on countries or groups of countries  such as french nobility. Slavic or  russian nobility, ect.
by Matt Pryber G2G6 Mach 5 (52.8k points)
I think we need categories for the major dynasties as well, particularly those that ended up ruling a number of different areas or countries, like the Bourbon who were in France, Spain and parts of Italy.  Or many of the major German dynasties, though I think some of them have categories already.
0 votes

I've been thinking about this for the last 3 months, as I get to know WikiTree's user interface. And I see it as a problem that cannot be addressed by looking at it from the inside. It would be so nice if we had a natural language search function, instead of having to rely on the super-restrictive boolean keyword that can further restrict the search at the wrong time.

An easy way to demonstrate what I'm trying to say ... is when I must resort to the simple Google command:

site:wikitree.com [keyword search terms]

At this point, I find that this command is the best answer to problems such as the one being discussed. And luckily, WikiTree techs have given us an important custom search function for hunting categories. So I just have it as a bookmarklet in my browser to keep it simple.

https://www.google.com/cse/publicurl?cx=003048598688029858478:aemrovxydzo

 

Another important issue for search is within the profile page itself. It helps to use structured markup and write meaningful content in the body... Use header tags. Use categories. Write relevant content spoken in a natural way. And above all... use the name the person is commonly known by, so that the world can instantly access it.

I'm still working on this... but for now, this is how I streamline the WikiTree process. 

by Living Ogle G2G6 Mach 3 (31.1k points)
edited by Living Ogle
Very useful link. Thanks.

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