no image
Privacy Level: Open (White)

Mathilde (Beauchamp) Marmion (bef. 1123 - 1181)

Mathilde (Matilda) "Maud" Marmion formerly Beauchamp aka de Beauchamp
Born before in Elmley Castle, Worcestershire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Daughter of and [mother unknown]
Wife of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died after age 58 in Warwickshire, Englandmap
Profile last modified | Created 11 Mar 2011
This page has been accessed 7,172 times.
European Aristocracy
Matilda Beauchamp was a member of the aristocracy in British Isles.

Biography

Matilda married, as his first wife, Robert Marmion V, son of Robert Marmion IV. [1]

Research Notes

Complete Peerage does not indicate the parents of Maud, merely hinting that she is a descendant of Walter de Beauchamp. [2]

The currently assigned parents of Matilda would both have been about 50 years old at her birth. Although possible, it is unlikely for this time period.

Undated Charter: Her son Robert Marmion, neveu de Guillaume de Beauchamp made a declaration concerning a donation of property to Sainte-Marie-de-Barberie and the charter dated 1224 under which Robert Marmion le jeune, fils de Mathilde de Beauchamp donated property to the same abbey. [3]

William de Beauchamp as the father of Matilda, would make William de Beauchamp the uncle of her son Robert, and Walter de Beauchamp her grandfather.

Sources

  1. Cawley, Charles. Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Hosted online by the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG), accessed 2020. [1]
  2. Cokayne, G.E. Complete Peerage of England, Scotland, Ireland, Great Britain and the United Kingdom VIII. Sutton Publishing Ltd., 2000, pp.509-10.
  3. Calvados (Anisy), Vol. I, Barberie, 23 and 85, pp. 143 and 149.
  • Unknown author. Memoirs of Chesters of Chicheley. N.p.: n.pub. "Pedigree of Boteler and Marmion".
  • John Ravilious, in a post to soc.genealogy.medieval, has her as daughter of William de Beauchamp, d. 1170, and Maud de Braose. [2]




Is Matilda your ancestor? Please don't go away!
 star icon Login to collaborate or comment, or
 star icon contact private message private message private message a profile manager, or
 star icon ask our community of genealogists a question.
Sponsored Search by Ancestry.com

DNA
No known carriers of Matilda's DNA have taken a DNA test. Have you taken a test? If so, login to add it. If not, see our friends at Ancestry DNA.


Comments: 10

Leave a message for others who see this profile.
There are no comments yet.
Login to post a comment.
This is an an important profile because, I believe the currently-attached son's line goes all the way to Rev Cotton (m Hawkred etc) in Puritan Boston. Whoever this person notionally is, if that history is real, they have a zillion living ancestors.

However, I find the current sources provided here totally unpersuasive; and there is a chance this is a complete fiction hinging on William Marmion, the notional grandson of this profile... who might be a fictional version of the historical William Marmion, Baron Marmion of Torrington, who was a priest and rebel and not known to have had children:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Marmion,_Baron_Marmion_of_Torrington

This Marmion family needs a lot of work, in my opinion.

This particular profile/merge is one of about 5 problems within two clicks of here on the pedigree chart. It looks like WikiTree is earnestly trying to synthesize a lot of mutually-exclusive, self-contradictory info (that is to say: we're trying to do something impossible, and wrong and bad) combining many incompatible sources... some of whom freely admit they're basically guessing because we just don't know. Because no primary source evidence exists (and perhaps, never will).

Wouldn't it be better for WikiTree to announce we don't know either... than be false-positive wrong publishing fictional people or hypothetical relationship connections?

posted on Beauchamp-562 (merged) by Isaac Taylor
Beauchamp-562 and Beauchamp-192 appear to represent the same person because: This family is pretty screwed up. It's partly our fault, as in this specific case where we have identically-named Maud Beauchamps married to father and son with same names. Clear duplicate in need of a merge and/or deletion of one of them.

On the other hand in reviewing the "sources" for this family group, it's clear that our sources disagree with each other and there is no consensus on the factual relationship connections for a couple generations of the Robert Marmion line. I mention this as you may want to look into that before resolving this merge.

But what we are publishing now is definitely wrong and in need to clean up, to de-dupe these double Mauds.

Isaac in California

posted by Isaac Taylor
This is probably a duplicate of Beauchamp-192, which is obvious at a glance in pedigree view:

https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Marmion-Family-Tree-57

posted on Beauchamp-562 (merged) by Isaac Taylor
No Dan, it doesn't. I think you're misreading the sentence with the 1194 date in it? It's saying somebody died -- not married -- after that date.

That said, it's unclear whom that death date describes. Probably the mother of her husband.

Morever, the link we provide to Cawley in our sources gives this:

"MATILDA de Beauchamp . Her marriage and parentage are confirmed by the undated charter under which her son "Robert Marmion, neveu de Guillaume de Beauchamp" made a declaration concerning a donation of property to Sainte-Marie-de-Barberie and the charter dated 1224 under which "Robert Marmion le jeune, fils de Mathilde de Beauchamp" donated property to the same abbey[946]. m as his first wife, ROBERT Marmion [V], son of ROBERT Marmion [IV] & his wife --- (-before [1217])."


Which is different from the text in the quote in the bio.

What's up with that? Has Cawley updated his work? It appears he has removed the name and pushed the date back. If same person, we can now bracket her death date as between 1194 and 1217. But that's not this Maud. That's probably her mother in law.

OR is WikiTree wrong?

It appears Wikipedia says this same Matilda is the daughter of William of Elmley... not Walter. That's merely a hint not a source. I don't have an answer, but I think I see the problem. Wikipedia and Cawley are incompatible. Anybody trying to synthesize both is going to be tripping on generations/conflations. Compare:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Marmion,_3rd_Baron_Marmion_of_Tamworth

Is Wikipedia correct that Marmion-27 married both Maud Beauchamp and Philippa NN? And by them had multiple sons named Robert? Or is that wrong; and WikiTree is correct that Marmion-44 who m. Philippa NN is the son of Marion-27 by Maud?

Anybody know this family cold? Is Cawley right that her son Robert's charter identifies him as the nephew of William de Beauchamp (which Wikipedia alleges is her father vice brother).

Possible solution = Cawley is wrong.

Consider if: the undated charter Cawley bases Maud's parentage upon -- apparently sole source -- says this Maud's son Robert has an uncle William. That's all we know. Well, fine. Why can't that be William II (d.1197) in lieu of William I (d.1170)?

That would make this Maud the daughter of William I by Maud de Braose (which would explain her name) not daughter of Walter by Emeline d’Abitot.

p.s. Warning we could have to do this all over again with the two Emma de Beauchamps; and the various Roberts. So let's get to the bottom of it here.

posted by Isaac Taylor
The biography doesn't match her dates. It has her marrying after 1194 and her son donating property in 1224. The Matilda who was the daughter of Walter and Emeline was born c1101. She should probably be attached to wiki: Marmion-44, as his first wife.
posted by Dan Norum
I have undertaken tyhe disconnection and merger so hope this is right
posted by Robin Wood C.Eng
Beauchamp-192 and Beauchamp-1182 appear to represent the same person because: based upon the requset of Daniel Washbourne Jones
posted by Robin Wood C.Eng
Profile has her brother & sister-in-law shown as her parents.

Matilda/Maud was dau. to Walter and Emmeline (d'Abitot) Beauchamp.

MATILDA de Beauchamp

Parents need to be detached here and a merge with Beauchamp-1182 will attach the correct parents and a more likely b. date.

Beauchamp-431 and Beauchamp-192 do not represent the same person because: Different parents and dates
posted by Robin Wood C.Eng
Beauchamp-431 and Beauchamp-192 appear to represent the same person because: Need to resolve mother and then merge

Featured German connections: Matilda is 24 degrees from Johann Wolfgang von Goethe, 32 degrees from Dietrich Bonhoeffer, 26 degrees from Lucas Cranach, 29 degrees from Stefanie Graf, 27 degrees from Wilhelm Grimm, 28 degrees from Fanny Hensel, 33 degrees from Theodor Heuss, 25 degrees from Alexander Mack, 42 degrees from Carl Miele, 23 degrees from Nathan Rothschild, 27 degrees from Hermann Friedrich Albert von Ihering and 25 degrees from Ferdinand von Zeppelin on our single family tree. Login to see how you relate to 33 million family members.

B  >  Beauchamp  |  M  >  Marmion  >  Mathilde (Beauchamp) Marmion

Categories: House of Beauchamp