Mira (Ryczke) Kimmelman (1923 - 2019)

Born 17 Sep 1923 in Danzig, Westpreußen, Preußen, Deutschland

Died 17 Apr 2019 at age 95 in Oak Ridge, Tennessee, United States

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Mira (Ryczke) Kimmelman survived persecution during the Holocaust. Join: Holocaust Project Discuss: holocaust

Biography

Mira was born in 1923. She passed away in 2018.

Husband Max Kimmelman (married May 19 1946 in Germany.Name: Mira Mary Ryczke Gender: weiblich (Female) Marriage Date: 18 Mai 1946 (18 May 1946) Marriage Place: Rötz Spouse: Max Kimmelmann Reference Number: 02010101 oS Source Citation Arolsen Archives, Digital Archive; Bad Arolsen, Germany; Lists of Persecutees 2.1.1.1; Series: 2.1.1.1 Source Information Ancestry.com. Europe, Registration of Foreigners and German Persecutees, 1939-1947 [database on-line]. Lehi, UT, USA: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc., 2019. Original data: Arolsen Archives. Registration of Foreigners and German Persecutees by Public Institutions, Social Securities and Companies (1939-1947). Bad Arolsen, Germany. 2.1.1.1 American Zone; Bavaria Hesse; 2.1.1.2 American Zone: Bavaria, Wurttemberg-Baden, Bremen; 2.1.1.3 American Zone; Bavaria, Hesse (Children).

She arrived in Cincinnati Ohio August 2 1948.

Mira Ryczke Kimmelman

Tennessee Holocaust Commission -

Oak Ridge, Tennessee

Born: 1923 Danzig (Gdansk), Poland

Survivor : Warsaw and Tomazow-Mazowiecki ghettoes; Blizyn-Majdanek, Auschwitz, Nordhausen and Bergen-Belsen Concentration Camps “We boarded open coal cars, unable to leave, unable to move...for three weeks. We ate snow... there was no food. 50% of us died in transport,“ says Mira Kimmelman, who survived a death march out of Auschwitz in the bitter winter of 1945. Under armed guard she and other women walked for two days and two nights in sub-zero temperatures.

Mira doesn't know how she lost her family, but she knows why. When the Germans invaded Poland, she and eighteen members of her family were separated from their non-Jewish neighbors and forced to live in ghettos, where they suffered from hunger, extreme cold, and typhus. The Jewish administration of the ghettos opened secret schools. To be caught with a pen or paper would mean instant death, so we taught privately through song and poetry. I was a student and then a teacher,“ recalls Mira.

In 1942 the Germans liquidated their ghetto and spoke of opportunities for work in the east. Mira says, We believed it. Work meant security and food. We were hopeful...and we didn't have a choice. My mother and I were marched out of the ghetto toward the railroad station. An SS officer ordered me to step out.“

Mira was sent to Blizyn, a concentration camp attached to Majdanek in Poland, and then to Auschwitz. She is haunted by a final memory of seeing her brother, who died at seventeen, at the gates of Auschwitz.

Mira's journey ended at Bergen-Belsen. With no work or food or water, the women drank urine to survive. In mid-April 1945 the camp was liberated by the British Army. Mira is the author of Echoes From the Holocaust: A Memoir (1997) and Life beyond the Holocaust: Memories & Realities (2005). She says she finds herhealing in writing and telling my story.

2009 Tennessee Holocaust Commission,

• • • ***

Mira Kimmelman, Holocaust survivor, speaker and author,

Kristi L. Nelson | Knoxville News Sentinel Updated 11:23 am EDT Apr. 19, 2019 Originally published 05:13 pm EDT Apr. 18, 2019

What Mira Ryczke Kimmelman survived as a young European Jewish woman during the Holocaust could only be called horrific. For 20 years, she couldn't even speak of it.

But when her voice came, it never wavered. She devoted the rest of her life to trying to ensure it would never be forgotten — or repeated. Mrs. Kimmelman, 95, died Wednesday, April 17, at her Oak Ridge home.

She was 15 years old and living with her parents, Moritz and Eugenia, and younger brother Benno near Danzig, now Gdansk on the Polish coast, at the start of World War II. Already expelled from school because she was Jewish, and threatened by the members of Hitler Youth who blocked the synagogue doors to beat Jews coming for services, she was among those driven from town two days after the war started in 1939.

Mrs. Kimmelman and her family were first taken to granaries, then to the Nazi-created ghettos at Warsaw, where they bartered what few possessions they had for bread, and then at Tomaszow-Mazowiecki, where they stayed for three years. In 1942, her brother and father were forced to the Blizyn-Majdanek concentration camp, while her mother was sent to her death at Treblinka.

After a year at Blizyn, Mrs. Kimmelman, her brother and her father were marched to Auschwitz, the largest and best-known concentration camp. They were there until the camp was evacuated in January 1945 and they were taken on open-sided cattle railroad cars to the Bergen-Belsen concentration camp in northern Germany. Some 60,000 remaining prisoners were liberated April 15, 1945, by British soldiers. Mrs. Kimmelman and her father were among them, but her brother had been shot by the road on a "death march" days before.

Mrs. Kimmelman lost 20 family members in the Holocaust. She met and married another survivor, Max Kimmelman, who had lost his wife and daughter in the Holocaust. They immigrated to America in 1948, living first in Cincinnati, Ohio, where her father followed a year later, and then moving to Oak Ridge in 1964 after Max Kimmelman's employer moved to nearby Rockwood.

It was there Mrs. Kimmelman began to speak at churches, community events and, especially, schools.

She vowed to counteract revisionists who "denied history," she said.

"There is never a question I won't answer," she said.

She spoke of the most intimate and disturbing experiences of her life, and allowed students to view and even touch the blue tattooed number on her arm from her imprisonment at Auschwitz.

"They always want to touch it," she told a reporter in 1997.

Mrs. Kimmelman became a sought-after speaker both locally and nationally and wrote two memoirs, “Echoes from the Holocaust: A Memoir” and “Life Beyond the Holocaust: Memories and Realities,” both published by the University of Tennessee Press.

"I didn't tell my story for 20 years because no one wanted to hear it. Now I tell it," she told students at a Sevier County school several years ago. "What I want to know is, once I'm gone, who is going to tell it? You are my witnesses. Only those who hear it can tell it to their children."

Danielle Kahane-Kaminsky of the Tennessee Holocaust Commission said Mrs. Kimmelman "never stopped teaching. She was committed to educating others about the Holocaust and worked tirelessly in that cause. She spoke to numerous students, always encouraging them to do everything they could to combat prejudice and hatred so that a Holocaust could never happen again."

Title Kimmelman, Mira Description Oral History of Mira Kimmelman, Interviewed by Claire Robbins and Alice Feldman, Filmed by Albert Good, May 15, 2017 Audio Link http://coroh.oakridgetn.gov/corohfiles/audio/Kimmelman_Mira_JCOR.mp3 Video Link http://coroh.oakridgetn.gov/corohfiles/videojs/Kimmelman_Mira_JCOR.htm Transcript Link http://coroh.oakridgetn.gov/corohfiles/Transcripts_and_photos/JCOR/Kimmelman_Final.doc Image Link http://coroh.oakridgetn.gov/corohfiles/Transcripts_and_photos/JCOR/Kimmelman_Mira.jpg Collection Name JCOR Related Collections COROH Interviewee Kimmelman, Mira Interviewer Robbins, Claire Type video Language English Subject Clubs and organizations; Oak Ridge (Tenn.); Religion; Schools; Organizations/Programs Jewish Congregation of Oak Ridge; Date of Original 2017 Format flv, doc, jpg, mp3 Length 1 hour, 53 minutes File Size 4.58 GB Source Jewish Congregation of Oak Ridge Location of Original Oak Ridge Public Library Rights Disclaimer: "This report was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor any agency thereof, nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any legal liability for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that process, or service by trade name, trademark, manufacturer, or otherwise do not necessarily constitute or imply its endorsement, recommendation, or favoring by the United States Governement or any agency thereof. The views and opinions of authors expressed herein do not necessarily state or reflect those of the United States Governemtn or any agency thereof." The materials in this collection are in the public domain and may be reproduced without the written permission of either the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History or the Oak Ridge Public Library. However, anyone using the materials assumes all responsibility for claims arising from use of the materials. Materials may not be used to show by implication or otherwise that the City of Oak Ridge, the Oak Ridge Public Library, or the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History endorses any product or project. When materials are to be used commercially or online, the credit line shall read: “Courtesy of the Center for Oak Ridge Oral History and the Oak Ridge Public Library.” Contact Information For more information or if you are interested in providing an oral history, contact: The Center for Oak Ridge Oral History, Oak Ridge Public Library, 1401 Oak Ridge Turnpike, 865-425-3455. Identifier KMJC Creator Center for Oak Ridge Oral History Contributors McNeilly, Kathy; Stooksbury, Susie; Reed, Jordan Searchable Text COLLECTION FROM THE JEWISH CONGREGATION OF OAK RIDGE ORAL HISTORY OF MIRA KIMMELMAN Interviewed by Claire Robbins and Alice Feldman Filmed by Albert Good May 15, 2017 Transcribed by Jordan Reed MRS. ROBBINS: …the timeline… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay. MRS. ROBBINS: We’ll talk. It’s beautiful, it’s just… yeah. So, you tell me when you’re ready. MR. GOOD: Yeah. We’re recording. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. MR. GOOD: So we can edit as much as we want. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. So first I’m supposed to, so Albert had you do this already. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The only thing is you have to go slow. MRS. ROBBINS: I will. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So that I catch every word. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. MR. GOOD: One thing we need to do is that piece of paper. MRS. ROBBINS: Right, but shouldn’t she sign these first? MR. GOOD: No. MRS. FELDMAN: But it needs to be in the video. MR. GOOD: The one that Mel made. MRS. ROBBINS: I got it. I got it. I’m asking you, do you sign these before or after. MR. GOOD: No, after. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. MR. GOOD: After. MRS. FELDMAN: There was something they held up though. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, I got it. I’ve got it. MRS. FELDMAN: Okay. MRS. ROBBINS: It’s in here, I promise. MRS. FELDMAN: Okay, okay. MRS. ROBBINS: I can only move so many papers. Here we go. All right. So that’s this. All right. MR. GOOD: Now we’re getting close. [Break in video] MR. GOOD: And you can talk. MRS. ROBBINS: All right. This is the oral history interview for the Jewish Congregation of Oak Ridge archives. It’s May 15, 2007… MR. GOOD: Teen. MRS. ROBBINS: Teen. 2017. Our interviewee is Mira Ryczke Kimmelman, 969 West Outer Drive, Oak Ridge, Tennessee. Our hosts are Claire Robbins and Alice Feldman. I’m Claire Robbins speaking. I’ll be conducting the interview, and video is being recorded by Albert Good. MR. GOOD: Thank you. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. Okay, so now we can just talk like regular people. So, there’s this whole interview protocol, and it begins at the very beginning, but I thought because you’ve told your story so many times, you’ve written your story, you’ve spoken your story, I wondered if it might make sense for us to begin in Oak Ridge, or perhaps toward the end of your time in Cincinnati. What do you think about that, or would you rather talk about from the beginning? MRS. KIMMELMAN: If you ask for the beginning, do you want from the time I was a baby? MRS. ROBBINS: Well, there are all of these questions, really the purpose of these interviews is two-fold. Its life histories, but it’s also the story of the synagogue. But you’ve shared your life history and it’s very painful. So I just wondered what you think. What do you think? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I can very briefly tell from the beginning, just to let you know where I am coming from. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, that would be great. I won’t ask any questions. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay. MRS. ROBBINS: You can just share that, and then we’ll begin. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I was born and raise in the Free City of Danzig, created after World War I, by the Congress of Versailles. Free City, it had its own government. The language was German. Two post offices. The river [?] was Polish. It was created between Poland and Germany. I was born in ’23, 1923, in the resort city of Zoppot, at the Baltic Sea. It was famous for its casino, horse racing, gambling, whatever. It’s a beautiful place. I lived there for four years, then we moved to Danzig, which was 15 kilometers further. At that time, I had already a little brother, born in 1928. In Danzig, I entered the school. In the fall, I entered a German school, but soon, there were restrictions and Jewish students were very uncomfortable in German schools. So I learned the Polish language, which I did not know. I spoke German from the time I was born, and entered the Polish Gimnazjum [school]. The Gimnazjum at that point had nine classes. I would say the Gimnazjum, the curriculum was equal to the first two years of college in America. In Danzig, it became 1928. Soon the Nazis started to gain power of the political situation and it became very unpleasant to live as Jewishly as we wanted to. But being young, I was drawn with all the youth, the Jewish youth to Zionist organizations, and we had at least 12 different organizations. I joined the Habonim, which means the builders, which was a left wing organization, and made friends there. It was a very intense life being able to live as Jewishly as possible and trying to avoid the anti-Semitism of the surroundings. A lot of my friends were in Habonim, and we kept our friendship for many, many years. Unfortunately, many of them are not alive anymore. They didn’t even survive the war. Then came a crucial moment. As Jews in Danzig, it was impossible to live. So we moved to the Polish part of Gdynia [Poland] which was north of Danzig, a new city created in 1920, and I still commuted by train every day to the Gimnazjum because there were many of the Jewish students that had to do the same thing. So we commuted. Then was a crucial moment again. They were talking about a Kinder transport [British rescue mission of Jewish children], if you ever heard about it. The Kinder transport was actually for young children, but they would have taken anybody that was able to go, whose parents were willing to let them go. My father decided whatever will happen, will happen to all of us. He was an optimist. He said, “Don’t worry, nothing will happen.” The war broke out, and we had to leave. That is another chapter of my life, escaping from Gdynia to where immigrant people lived at that time. Leaving everything behind, never to see it again. In large, I tried to go to school. The Lyceum was accepting students who wanted to do whatever courses were available, but the conditions were not very conducive. The Jewish were not allowed to walk the main streets. That means every time we had to walk somewhere we had to go the back streets and cross at certain points the main streets. So everything became an obstacle. My parents decided we have to go to the [inaudible] government. It’s the part of Poland that the Germans decided to have some kind of autonomy because [inaudible] was just as bad as the other part. I went there and my parents and my brother. My grandparents came a little later and we started a new life in another city, which I never saw, never heard before. And again the first thing I did, I looked for a Zionist organization I could join and then I joined Hashomer Hatzair which was very close to Habonim, and it was a leftist organization. The story of my ghetto is in the books. I don’t think I should go through that. Then comes the whole ordeal of working camps, concentration camps, etcetera, etcetera. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And now we come to 1945. Liberation. I had no idea who is alive. My mother was taken away when my father and brother went to Auschwitz together, with me, but we were separated, men and women. We’re never together. After three months in Bergen-Belsen [German concentration camp], I got a little note saying that my father looks for me. So I knew my father was alive. And he traced me to Bergen-Belsen where we were reunited. I worked for the British Red Cross, [inaudible] office as a volunteer, helping to reunite families, to take tribute to mother’s or father’s or vice versa. I was overwhelmed when I received the news from my father that he’s looking for me. Then I met my husband. It is all in the book. I don’t think I have to go over it again. We were married in May of 1946. So, this is the past, and then we have to go into the new life when we came to America. It took about two years for us to get the papers and everything to come here. My grandmother’s brother lived in Cincinnati, and his family sent the papers, the affidavit to bring us over. What should I say? We came to Cincinnati. My English was the book English. It was not the English that people speak in the street. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: But, my husband Max, didn’t speak it at all. So the agency arranged for him to have lessons on Sundays because he worked six days a week. So on Sunday morning, he went to a private teacher and had English lessons. The story of my first job was very traumatic. I will not say the names. These were refugees who came from Vietnam and they opened a text service where we were preparing texts for people. They needed somebody to work with the books to help them work. The agency asked me to take the job. No, this is not a lie, but a painful truth. People that were so traumatized by the changes were scared of everything. We came to Cincinnati, it was July. In August, I started the job there. No air-conditioning, so you would wear short sleeves, or no sleeves, but I have a tattoo on my left arm. When they noticed the tattoo, they said, “No, you cannot be in our office with that tattoo. They will think that we have a prisoner here. If you want to go to work here, you have to cover it every day with a Band-Aid.” So, for months I was putting on a Band-Aid and taking off a Band-Aid. I was already seen. And my husband said, “This is not the way for us to live.” And said, “You are not going to work there anymore.” And I quit. To quit a job with a Jewish couple who were refugees themselves, we couldn’t even believe that. But the trauma of being a stranger, of being suspected of hiring a prisoner… I got a job with the Youth American Hebrew Convocation and worked there until two months before my baby was born. MRS. ROBBINS: So, one of the things that I remember from the book was that your father was visiting often and that he considered Cincinnati, but that he decided to stay in New York because he might want to meet another woman, and he wanted to be in a larger city, but he was traveling often. MRS. KIMMELMAN: First of all, Cincinnati was very conservative, still a very conservative city. And people did not flock to Cincinnati like New York. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: In New York, he had friends from Danzig, he had friends from childhood. He had people who knew who he was, and some of them gave him temporary jobs. He couldn’t speak English. He could read it and understand everything, but he couldn’t speak it. He didn’t work, and finally he stayed with friends from Danzig, who rented one room to him, and they said, “We are going to the Catskills in the summer, why don’t you come visit?” He came and visited and he met his future wife. She was of Romania Jews, but lived in Berlin before the war, and married there, and went to Cuba, and from Cuba to America. She did not live through the war. She had a safe life here. When she came to America, she divorced him. But my father was so taken with this younger woman, and if he is happy, we will be happy. They were married and my father decided he had to get out of New York. He could not live like that. Maybe one will give him this job and that job. He wanted to be an independent man, and he bought a chicken farm. There was another friend from Danzig who had a chicken farm on the same street. His name was Mr. [Adam] Engel, and Mr. Engel’s son was in the same Gimnazjum I was, one class below me. So we knew the family. He bought the farm and every vacation, every Fourth of July we went. Max said he has only one week vacation, but he wants us to be there longer. So we went the week before and we stayed a week longer to be with my father on the farm. The boys loved it. And unfortunately, that marriage was not a very happy one. After many, many years, it fell apart. My father decided at that time, he was going to leave America. There was nothing for him here. He still didn’t speak English the way he wanted to. His German [was] like a lawyer, when he was writing letters to lawyers, they were sure he is their colleague. He had an absolute command of the language. He was on the bourse, the bourse is a French word, the stock exchange. This is not money. The stock exchange in grain, it was. He was a judge on it. He just felt in Israel, he has friends from there, and he will be much happier. So after 20 years of marriage, he made the change. He came first here, and he said he would try, but he said, “I wouldn’t even be buried here.” MRS. ROBBINS: In Oak Ridge? MRS. KIMMELMAN: In Oak Ridge. He said, “It’s too small of a town.” MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, my goodness. MRS. KIMMELMAN: “This is not for me.” He was a big city man. He wanted to be and he had romance after another. MRS. ROBBINS: Really? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. He was a lady’s man. He never entered a house without flowers or bomboniere. Okay, so my father is now in Israel. Benno graduated from here, Gene went to Denmark after graduating from the University of Virginia, and we were here alone. As for me, we came to Oak Ridge, the first one to come to visit me was Sig Lindenbaum. Sig Lindenbaum must have had the feeling that we are not Americans, but we are not like everybody else. His parents came from Poland and he lived in Berlin. So we had many things in common. He said to me, “You are going to be a Hebrew teacher. You are Hebrew. You know it. You can teach it to the children.” That was in August of 1964. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, before we get too far into the teaching, can you, because I just read about it. I love the story of how Max got his job, at the interview, and that’s how it is you came to Oak Ridge. Could you tell us a little bit about the job that Max had, and how it is that he came to have it, and then how it is you came to decide on Oak Ridge. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We didn’t decide. The other company was sold to Burlington Industries. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And Burlington Industries was looking for [inaudible] no union. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And they founded in the south. So we moved to Rockwood, Tennessee. We had no idea where Rockwood was. Max had to commute from Cincinnati for three months to see who it works. The other company stopped existing. We had no choice. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: He was 55 years old. To look at that time for a job was impossible. Today, 55 is young. At that time 55 was close to retirement. Rockwood was the answer, but when Max had to decide, he said to me, “What is important for you? Knoxville is a nice small town. Has a lot of Jews.” I said, “I need a good school for my children, and there Jewish education has to be obtained.” And we found it in Oak Ridge. I started to correspond with Rabbi [Kenneth] Bromberg, but that was when he was already leaving. Then his secretary, if I’m not mistaken, was, who was it? Do you remember? MRS. ROBBINS: The secretary? MRS. FELDMAN: The secretary to the… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Joey…the one who lived on West Outer Drive at the end MRS. FELDMAN: Hannick, Hannick, Hannick. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Hannick. MRS. FELDMAN: Okay, yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Evelyn. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Evelyn Hannick. MRS. ROBBINS: Evelyn Hannick. MRS. KIMMELMAN: She was writing letters to me, and then she said, “We have no Rabbi now because Rabbi Bromberg left. Why don’t you just come and see.” Then when we came, it was just a month after [Alexander] Gelberman was hired. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: You know Rabbi Gelberman was a European. He felt very comfortable with us. It had nothing to do with Judaism. He felt some people were against him. It is very hard to understand. You are born here. Your parents were born here, but even your grandparents must have felt this comfort as a newcomer versus somebody who lives here. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: He felt that. Then was a very tragic incident with Rabbi Gelberman, and I think you know about what was happening here. Yeah. Okay. We were his witnesses. We were trying to give him the strength. It killed him. It was a killer. How much truth there is, only God knows. But the way they approached it, it started to spread. The lies or whatever it was, it was not right. So you know he was looking for another place, and he left. When he left, Bob Marcus was hired. He was a friend. Today, we call him. He was a true friend. It has nothing to do with the Rabbi, but… yeah. So, we went through the ups and downs with the Rabbis. Most of them, 99 percent were wonderful people, and good friends. They did a job and we felt so at home. So comfortable. Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: So you moved here in 1964? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: And let’s see. Benno had just had his Bar Mitzvah… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Just had his Bar Mitzvah in February, and we moved in July. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. So I remember you wrote in the book, that you and Benno had a hard time with the transition because you missed the friends and the family in Cincinnati, but that Gene was more excited for a new adventure. He was little bit younger. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Gene was a youngster. First of all, he was a sports enthusiast, and here, the golf courses and baseball fields, he was not the scholarly. He was, when you are the brother of the oldest one, you develop your own little kingdom and you don’t want to have anything to do with him. You want to be different. They are as different as day and night, and so wonderful to each other, it’s… So, each one had their little kingdom here. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, and it worked out. So back to the teaching. So Sig Lindenbaum comes to you and he says, “Can you teach on Sunday morning?” And then what happened? MRS. KIMMELMAN: First of all he wanted me to teach first of all history, the English part of the Hebrew School. Then he found out that I know Hebrew, that I had Hebrew. He said, “Why don’t you start with the Alefbet too,” and as a matter of fact, it was Becky Levi. [Break in audio] MRS. KIMMELMAN: …to create a class on Wednesday. It was at that time it was on Tuesdays and Thursdays. Do you remember we had three times the Hebrew School? Sunday… MRS. KIMMELMAN and MRS. FELDMAN in unison: …Tuesday, and Thursday. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I was sharing a class with her and it was delightful. And then I had you in school. [Laughter] MRS. ROBBINS: So the Alefbet, is that like the eight-year-olds, or nine, or something like that? How old are those? The beginning of the Alefbet. How are old are you when you start Tuesday, Thursday? How old were those children? MRS. KIMMELMAN: After… MRS. ROBBINS: Fourth grade? MRS. KIMMELMAN: After three years, around nine years. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And then it was too much, we decided it’s too much. We changed to Wednesday only. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. And when was that? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was later, it was in the ‘80’s. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. So, you had all of these roles in the synagogue, well, not just the synagogue. You were a leader with Hadassah. You were a leader with the sisterhood. You were a leader with the congregation. MRS. KIMMELMAN: With the sisterhood, I never had a leading position. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh really? Okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I took the [inaudible 34:54] because they said they wanted somebody. Then I was president of the congregation and I had to deal with the sisterhood, but I was much more active with Hadassah. MRS. ROBBINS: Can you tell the story of how you became involved with Hadassah and who you became such a prominent leader even for the whole region? How did that happen? MRS. KIMMELMAN: With Hadassah? MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: First of all, I was a Zionist. I belonged since the age of six to the Zionist organizations. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So Zionism was in my blood. And it was less political locally, you know what I mean. The sisterhood was very political here, locally. Hadassah was not because it has a broader field, okay. You learned history, and you could talk about it. What’s happening in the world, and what’s happening in the state of Israel, in the wars, it’s all that. MRS. ROBBINS: A much bigger cause than just one community. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah, and after [Adolf] Eichmann’s trial, they finally agreed in America to teach about the Holocaust. There was no teaching about the Holocaust before. It is after the Eichmann trial, and when you become involved and they started, and do you know who started me on talking about it? Jinks Watson. You know who Jinks is? MRS. ROBBINS: Yes. MRS. KIMMELMAN: You know? MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, absolutely. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Jinks and I became such close friends, that when [inaudible] planned their first trip to Europe, she said, “You have to come.” I said, “I cannot come, Max is so sick. I cannot leave him.” She said, “Let’s wait and see.” And Max died that February, and they planned it for August. So I could go. I was one of the interpreters of what was happening because you went to places where I had been during the war. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So… so things happened by chance, you know. MRS. ROBBINS: So you were involved in Hadassah just as a matter of your blood, right? You just became involved in Hadassah because… MRS. KIMMELMAN: I was a Zionist. MRS. ROBBINS: You were a Zionist. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And that was it. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So how did you become so involved? How is it you came to be president, and then how is it you came to be the regional president? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh. MRS. ROBBINS: Just a matter of… MRS. KIMMELMAN: It’s a matter of recommendations. I have no idea. I had many, many friends. I made so many friends. Unfortunately, most of them are gone. They are all my age. The very young ones are now leaders, but I knew them when they were youngsters. MRS. ROBBINS: What do you think people saw in you that they connected with as a leader? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know. MRS. ROBBINS: Don’t know. MRS. KIMMELMAN: [Inaudible]. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. How about in the other organizations? You became president of the congregation for a while. I remember that because I was in high school. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was in ’97, ’96, ‘97, ‘98. Those three years. At the same time. It was after Max died. It took me a while to get my bearings. And Victor was very helpful. He said, “Don’t worry. I am your friend. I will help you.” MR. GOOD: Victor Rashkovsky, our Rabbi. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I didn’t know him too well, but he was so good to Max, when Max was sick. There was not a day he didn’t come to see him. So, we don’t always agree on everything, but that doesn’t make friendship less important. We don’t have to. You don’t agree with your husband all the time. MRS. FELDMAN: No doubt. [Laughter] MRS. KIMMELMAN: So we just do the best we can. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: But, Claire, you have been a wonderful, wonderful student. And a wonderful friend. And so supportive. I remember when I was up to Ohio. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, Philadelphia. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Philadelphia. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: That’s right. Oh. My gosh. MRS. ROBBINS: A long time ago now. MRS. KIMMELMAN: My granddaughter is at Haverford [College]. MRS. ROBBINS: Really? I didn’t know that. Melanie? MRS. KIMMELMAN: She’s, Melanie, not Melanie, it’s Ellie, is accepted there early decision. She is. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, wow. Yeah, Melanie is long out of college. MRS. KIMMELMAN: She’s gone. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Melanie is 29. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh my God. That’s wild. That’s fantastic. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So you know Haverford? MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Good. MRS. ROBBINS: I would go over sometimes for concerts or lectures. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah, they are very close. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. They are very close. So, are you getting tired? MRS. KIMMELMAN: No. MRS. ROBBINS: No? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I will tell you when I am tired. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, good. Do you need a drink of water or tea, or anything? MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, I don’t want tea. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. Oh, it’s your family. You want me to hold it up? MR. GOOD: Sure. MRS. FELDMAN: Mira, can tell us [about] Melanie and everyone. MRS. ROBBINS: I think… So can you point out, even though all of us know, can you tell for the camera who everyone is? MRS. KIMMELMAN: That’s hard. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Because of your vision? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay. [Camera repositioned] MR. GOOD: Excuse me. [Framed picture of nine people, five standing in back and four sitting in front] MRS. KIMMELMAN: This is Gene. This is Michael. This is Melanie. This is Benno. This is Max. This is Ellie. This is Vera. This is Carolyn and this is Joy. MRS. ROBBINS: Wonderful. MRS. KIMMELMAN: My two daughters-in-law. My grandsons, and granddaughters. MRS. ROBBINS: Wonderful. Thank you. Okay. [Camera repositioned] MRS. ROBBINS: Let’s see, what was it like to be president of the synagogue? What did you have to do and what were some of the things that were challenging? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Thank God there’s a large crew. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Lots of help, and lots of help, and lots of aggravation. But we kept it, at least we tried to keep it orderly and clean because what’s happen with services not being regular. It was every weekend, and we have a lot of other things living there with us. It is very hard to get ready and keep that place clean. So it needs constant care. If you have a full congregation and only half of them come, it’s hard. People have now other things. The ones that were young are now mothers, and people want to go to their grandchildren, and they want to be with their family. You don’t get the people like we had before who would care for the building, who would go in there a few times a week. MRS. ROBBINS: So you have all of these roles that you had, and I know I’m a little focused on those, but, so that was a little bit of what it was like to lead the synagogue. What was it like to lead Hadassah at the regional level? MRS. KIMMELMAN: There were already friends who were working, I knew these people already years. I became president in ’81, I joined Hadassah in ’70. So I was already 11 years with the organization, knowing the people. So it was natural. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. What were some of the things that you had to accomplish in that time? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know. MRS. ROBBINS: You don’t know. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know. MRS. ROBBINS: That’s a long time. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know because my life was also devoted to my children and grandchildren. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It’s not only an organization. It’s… Can I give you something else? Are you sure? MRS. ROBBINS: What is it that you need? MRS. FELDMAN: I was just going to [inaudible]. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So when you weren’t busy as a wife, as a mother, and being involved in the synagogue, and Hadassah, you were also, let’s see, you were with the United Nations Committee, and what else? The American Friends Service [AFS] group. What were some of the other…? MRS. KIMMELMAN: The AFS. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Because Daniel was interested in it and Gene was interested in it. I became involved and they wanted me to help them. So finally I, it was my turn to become president. It was always a two year term. Gene was in AFS. He still has his friends from… MRS. ROBBINS: From that time. So you chose to get involved that way. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yes, through the children. MRS. ROBBINS: And what about with the United Nations group? How did you become involved and what did you do? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Because the United Nations worked a little bit with AFS too. These were foreign students and we tried to make them feel at home. So in the United Nations, was an important thing with, you know, and with the quales [sp?] and with the things going on. Eleven years president, I think that’s enough. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We made many friends, and we made many, many people, as a matter of fact the parents of Becky’s in-laws were very involved in it and they were good friends of mine. I knew them way before I knew that their son was marrying a Jewish girl. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, how funny. So I noticed in your book, all of the times that, you know, somebody invited you into their home meant so much to you when you came to the United States. It just strikes me how you wanted to… MRS. KIMMELMAN: I can’t tell you. It was funny. They told us in New York when we came, wait, everybody will want to invite you once. MRS. ROBBINS: And that’s it. Yeah, yeah. And I know how much it means to you to have a home that is always open to anyone who is a new comer and to create community with others. So I just noticed that your involvements really reflected that importance to your life. Was that something you thought about at the time, as you were working with the UN group, and the AFS, are you thinking this is really important work and make sure I’m supporting exchange of young people around the world and to welcome anyone who is in my community. Were those the kinds of things that were on your mind? MRS. KIMMELMAN: What is the question? MRS. ROBBINS: So the question is: how much do you think your own experiences arriving in the US influenced how you became involved in Oak Ridge? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I think Oak Ridge, being a small town, and being a creator of people from all over, not just people born here, but coming from all over, made it an ideal place. MRS. ROBBINS: Wonderful. So thinking about your time with the religious school. How many years were you teaching? 40? MRS. KIMMELMAN: From ’64 to ’92. MRS. ROBBINS: ’64 to ’92. And then you were working… MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, ’64… not to ’92. I was… MRS. ROBBINS: You are 92. [Laughter] I was like my Bat Mitzvah was in 1992. [Laughter] MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, no, no, no. MRS. ROBBINS: So until… 1964 until maybe 2015, 2016. So what is that? 50 years really. Really 50 years. Looking back over 50 years. 50 years of religious education at JCOR [Jewish Congregation of Oak Ridge], what are some of the memories that have stayed with you the most? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It is hard to say because each child was different. Each class gave me different tsuris. [Laughter] There was not a class that was 100 percent okay. In each class, there was one or two that caused a revolution. I will not give you names, but [inaudible] “…when I go home and tell my parents, they will not want me to have you as a teacher.” MRS. ROBBINS: Oh my God. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It’s a very good friend of mine, but this is what the young children do. MRS. ROBBINS: It’s just how it is. So what were the different kinds of tsuris? What were the other kinds of problems that the kids gave you? Not practicing I know was one. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Children are children. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I had a child who was mistreated by other children, and he started to lie to me, and we had to sit down and have a talk. But otherwise there was not any, no great trouble. No. MR. GOOD: You taught Sunday School, and Hebrew School, and you also trained people for Bar/Bat Mitzvahs. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The Bar/Bat Mitzvahs were separate from Hebrew School because that is a different training. MRS. ROBBINS: So tell us about the training from start to finish. If I want to become trained… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay, the first thing is the fluency in reading. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah MRS. KIMMELMAN: Because we have to be fluent in reading of the prayers and understanding why we do these prayers. [Telephone rings] [Inaudible background talk] MRS. FELDMAN: Elaina. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Elaina? MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. So first fluency in the prayers. Enough to read the prayers. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And then I started to explain why we do these things. Then studying the haftarah, studying the melody and studying the text. Then practicing. It’s very regulated for children that can do it. I had children where we had to minimize it. Even change the day of the week. You know it’s not that important that it’s on Saturday. It can be Monday and Thursday too. So, for the sake of the child we did it. MRS. ROBBINS: What were some of the things that you observed in the young people as they prepared for their Bar/Bat Mitzvah from start to finish. Of course, they’re getting older during that time, but how about their confidence. Did you see children become more confident in speaking, presenting? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, by the time they are Bar Mitzvahed or Bat Mitzvahed, they are comfortable because we take two years to do it. That is besides the school, only that step-by-step so that they feel comfortable. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. How many… I was just going to ask that. How many children do you think that you trained for their Bar/Bat Mitzvah? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I’m not only talking about children. MRS. ROBBINS: And adults, you’re right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I had 88 people trained for Bar/Bat Mitzvahs. Children and adults, 88. MRS. ROBBINS: How many adults do you think? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, 20. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh wow, three quarters of them. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The Rabbi. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, himself. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: That’s wonderful. And how many children do you think you taught in the classes in all those years? I mean, what’s the biggest class you ever had? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Twelve children. MRS. ROBBINS: Twelve children. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah, but look, some children, with some it stuck and some it just evaporated. It’s gone. MRS. ROBBINS: But in many it sticks. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I hope. I hope it stuck with you, Claire. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, it stuck with me. Did you ever convene with other religious education, well religious educators? MRS. KIMMELMAN: When we had it in Knoxville, once a year, November, a meeting of teachers from the surrounding areas. Tennessee, and spoke about our problems. And we all had the same problems because children are children. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It is the support of the parents that is so important. MRS. ROBBINS: I see. Yeah. Did you, were there any things that you wish you had a chance to do, that you didn’t have a chance to do, being a religious educator? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I wish I would be younger, I could still do it. [Laughter] It’s so rewarding. It’s so wonderful, but it changed. For the last eight, six years, the children were not the same. They wanted to do what they wanted to do. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, yeah. Now I have them as graduate students. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So you know. Definitely. There is a change. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yeah. So, when, I was just going to ask you something. Sorry I lost it. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It will come back. MRS. ROBBINS: It will come back. MR. GOOD: You want to take a break? MRS. ROBBINS: Do you want to take a quick break? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Hmm. MRS. ROBBINS: Would you like a break? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I have some fruit ready for us. Let’s have some fruit and then go on. MRS. ROBBINS: Let’s have some fruit and come back. Yeah, okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Claire, honey, put this away. I need your help. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. Sure. [Break in video] [Bookcase with books, photos, pottery] [Camera panning around the room] [Inaudible background talk] MRS. KIMMELMAN: I am so glad [inaudible1:01:08] MRS. FELDMAN: We didn’t want to give you stage fright. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh. Did Mel Sturm want to come? MRS. FELDMAN: Well, he went to some of them, a couple that have been done already. He had a camera. So the one we have now is borrowed from there. But they ordered one especially for this project. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I see. MRS. FELDMAN: And so, it’s really a wonderful thing. I got to meet the man who’s from Atlanta who’s in charge of it, Noah. What’s his last name? MR. GOOD: Levine. Levine. [Inaudible background talk] MRS. ROBBINS: Would you like some fruit? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I will. You start. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. Thank you. MRS. FELDMAN: We don’t usually expect the interviewee to provide refreshments, but that’s Mira. Always hospitable. MRS. ROBBINS: So was I… What are Benno and Gene up to? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, Benno is planning to come. They alternate every month and have one of them come. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: They work very hard, very hard. Now Gene is in Stockholm. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh. MRS. KIMMELMAN: He has a conference. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And then he goes to Copenhagen to see his family. MRS. ROBBINS: To see his family again. MRS. FELDMAN: It’s so wonderful. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And then he comes home and they go to Vermont because Ellie will be working two weeks on a farm for school. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. That’s great. And she’s in Haverford? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, yeah. So she can’t just be starting then. She’s in the middle. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Pardon. MRS. ROBBINS: What year is she in school? MRS. FELDMAN: She just got accepted. MRS. KIMMELMAN: She graduated from high school. MRS. ROBBINS: But the two weeks… MRS. KIMMELMAN: She’s entering. MRS. ROBBINS: Right, but the two weeks in Vermont is for college? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, wow. Okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It’s the high school project, but for those that go to college. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. [Break in video] [Four framed pictures hanging on a wall] MRS. KIMMELMAN: How did you find this? MRS. ROBBINS: I have it. MRS. KIMMELMAN: But how did you… MRS. ROBBINS: How did I like it? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, I loved it. I’ve already… [Break in video] [Four framed pictures hanging on a wall] MRS. ROBBINS: I think he wants you tell him who is in each picture. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The first picture on the left is my mother, in the middle is my brother. That was his Bar Mitzvah picture, and the one to the right is my father. The one on top is Max’s mother. She died at the age 55. MR. GOOD: What are their names? MRS. ROBBINS: Well, we have that. MR. GOOD: Okay. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. We have that. [Break in video] MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, so I wrote down just a few more topics, but you just say when you’re tired. One topic, you mentioned how Jinks got you involved in speaking, and I wondered if you could talk a little bit about your, all of the speaking that you have done in Oak Ridge, and around East Tennessee, and the country, and the world. What has it been like to speak about your experiences? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Do you want to know my reaction to talking? MRS. ROBBINS: I guess, that’s a great question. I guess first talk about all the kinds of speaking engagements you’ve done. How did it get started? How often? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It started with the churches actually. They wanted to know. That was all after the process of Eichmann. Then teachers asked me if I would come to their classes. I had a little bit of a hard time. They wanted me to talk to children who were too young. A 10-year-old, 11-year-old cannot understand it. I said it has to be at least a 13-year-old. Then they have to learn the history. You cannot give them something just out of a blue moon. I don’t think they understood. Their grownups wanted to know much more about it. MRS. ROBBINS: And so… MRS. KIMMELMAN: The Lions Club, the Optimists [sp?] Club, you know all the clubs that are, I filled the program, okay, but they… [Telephone rings] MRS. KIMMELMAN: I have it. [Break in video] MRS. ROBBINS: So, you spoke to like the Lions Club, and these organizations, mostly to adults, you said the teachers would ask you to speak to children that were too young. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Any group that wanted to. The only one that never asked, and that is funny, not one of the black churches… MRS. ROBBINS: Really? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Ever wanted to know. They have so much hurt of their own. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: They don’t want to hear about others. MRS. ROBBINS: Interesting. MRS. KIMMELMAN: All these years, not a one. MRS. ROBBINS: I wonder too, if they know it’s a lot to ask, you know. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, they have to learn about it. MRS. ROBBINS: Of course, yeah. So, how did you feel when you started getting all of these requests? Did you have to consider whether you would do it? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, if a class or a teacher wants me to speak, I rely on their discretion that they really mean it. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So, what kinds of reactions did you get from young people? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Wonderful. I have essays and stories, and letters thanking me. I have to destroy them. I cannot keep all of them, but they all appreciate this. Even now, they are married, they see me and they say they remember my speech and “I’m telling it to my children now.” MRS. ROBBINS: Wow. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So… But its history. It’s a part of history. It all depends on what else will happen in this world. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: That may disappear if we the survivors disappear. That will, too. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. How did you feel after speaking? Did it… and how did you learn to manage that over the years and not take on too much? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Are we talking of overextending myself? MRS. ROBBINS: Um, I guess what I mean is I remember you saying at some point to me that you would only speak so many times a week, for example. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Because it’s very, very hard. You relive it when you speak it. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And sometimes it becomes more painful, and sometimes it’s easy. It all depends on how it’s received. When you have a class of children that do not feel mature enough and ask questions that are painful, it’s harder too, but there are times when it’s much more painful than other times. Then I have to relive it myself. I never, never did more than I could. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So, I know you spoke often to churches, civic groups… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Schools, organizations, study groups. At the study groups, friends of mine in Knoxville had a study group. They were learning about the Holocaust. They wanted somebody who lived through it to speak. So… MRS. ROBBINS: So just all the time. Do you still get requests now? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Do I get what? MRS. ROBBINS: Do you still get requests to speak? MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, I don’t speak anymore. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So people know. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Not now with my eye, the way it is. I don’t have the strength anymore. MRS. ROBBINS: So people know not to ask by now. MRS. KIMMELMAN: They know not to ask. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, yeah. So one thing that I really enjoyed about this book was that you shared your own story and then you have a chapter where you write for Max. I know it might be painful, but I wondered if for the benefit of the synagogue, if you could share a little bit about Max’s life history. Just enough to help us understand enough context of his life before he met you, and what he did all day at his job here, and what his retirement was like. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, the family, part of them lived in Germany, part in Poland. He was born in Germany, but they moved to Poland. He finished school. He was the youngest, the tenth child, but not all survived. It was hard for him to decide what to do with his life. His older brother was in Berlin, had a practice as a dentist. His oldest brother, the one that survived, didn’t survive the war, but lived at that time, was a known socialist, very involved in the Socialist Party. Max adored him. The sisters, one was in charge of a business, and the other one was unmarried, she escaped and married a Catholic in Poland. So the family was so mixed up in age and in backgrounds, but he was the favorite. He was the youngest… MRS. KIMMELMAN and MRS. ROBBINS in unison: …the baby. MRS. KIMMELMAN: When he couldn’t find a job in Berlin, his brother advised him to go back to Poland and maybe he would find a job there. He started a higher school for textiles, and had a job in a textile business. Then he married and had a little girl. MRS. ROBBINS: Malka. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Pardon. MRS. ROBBINS: Malka. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Malka, after his mother. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: [Inaudible] was Malka, and she was Malka and my Melanie is Malka, yeah. So, his life was very different from my life. First of all, he was 16 years older than I am. Sixteen year difference. What can I say? MRS. ROBBINS: So, then you met and you went to Cincinnati, tell us about, you’ve talked about the job and how it led him to Rockwood and you here, but what did he do? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, because of his age, he didn’t have many choices. So whatever was offered to him. The Adler family was wonderful. Every Rosh Hashanah they gave us tickets to the temple so that we could go and not pay anything. MRS. ROBBINS: This was in Cincinnati. MRS. KIMMELMAN: In Cincinnati. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The wages, 87 cents an hour. MRS. ROBBINS: Shoo. MRS. KIMMELMAN: When he got $1 an hour, we celebrated. It was nothing, but for us it was a lot. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was very hard for us when we learned that they wanted to sell the company, but they couldn’t exist anymore. The competition was terrible. MRS. ROBBINS: It was hosiery. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Pardon. Hosiery, yeah. They were making yarn, and they were making beautiful silks and stockings. When the Korean War, they were making bandages for the… MRS. ROBBINS: Oh. MRS. KIMMELMAN: They were very diversified, but Burlington was the money. They wanted to make money. So they only concentrated on things that went, on things that could sell quickly. Until there came a time, the union was fighting and they wanted to have a union. They dissolved the company. MRS. ROBBINS: I see. MRS. KIMMELMAN: By then Max was already gone. Sixty-five, compulsory [sp?], you couldn’t work any longer. MRS. ROBBINS: Got it. And that was 1973. Okay. So what was he, before he retired when you children were at home, what was a typical week like? So, it’s Monday morning, he leaves at six in the morning, or something. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Honey, we got up 20 minutes to five. MRS. ROBBINS: Whoo. MRS. KIMMELMAN: 5:30 was breakfast. Six o’clock he was out of the house. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. And then the children got up, or were the children already up? MRS. KIMMELMAN: [Nods head] That was long as he worked, yeah. And when he stopped working, he started to deal with Amway products, you know the soaps and detergents, and had this clientele, and busy going and selling. It didn’t make much money, but it kept him busy. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Then he worked for a short time at Linden School. It was very unruly. He just couldn’t deal with the children behaving the way they were and he quit. So… then he was babysitting for all our friends. That he loved. He took them to music lessons, and he took them here, and there. He loved that. MRS. ROBBINS: That’s great. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Do you know the Orleans [sp?]? Alder Orlean? MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yes. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, they are very good friends. There boys adored him. He was taking them here and there, everywhere. So, that was it. Then Uncle died and my father was moving to Israel, and every few years we had to go because there was another accident or something. We had to be there to make sure that he can exist in a nice way. He traveled. He traveled an awful lot. He was [inaudible]. He was going to Germany, and he had many, many friends, but his health was starting to, his heart. That’s… MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Once my father went, Max’s health started to… MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: It went down, down, down. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. I remember. So, during the happy times in Oak Ridge, when you children were young, and he was working, what was the weekday like for you? MRS. KIMMELMAN: The weekdays we were busy, busy. They were busy driving the children here, driving the children here. Hebrew School, picking up. We were busy. Weekends until Sunday, we always had company. So, it was a good life. It was a good life. MRS. ROBBINS: What would you do when you had company? How would you entertain yourself? MRS. KIMMELMAN: We ate, and we talked. We talked an awful lot. MRS. ROBBINS: What would you talk about? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Politics, the children, the future, yeah. Never ever the past. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: That was taboo. MRS. ROBBINS: Did you feel like that was your choice not to talk about the past? MRS. KIMMELMAN: That was I think automatic. People understood it hurts. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Yeah. So your friendships, were they all with people from the Jewish community… MRS. KIMMELMAN: No. MRS. ROBBINS: … in those days? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I had many, many… I don’t know if you know Sekula. I don’t know if you knew Anne Sekula. She was Ukrainian. A good, good friend. Her husband was Polish. They were Catholics. One day, Max was already in the retirement center, he walked the dog, had a heart attack on the street and was dead. And six weeks later, Max died. We became widows almost at the same time. The only thing is, she lost her husband in a minute. I was with Max for years, nursing him. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, knowing that it was coming. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We spoke yesterday about it. It’s very, very hard here. And Jinks and Marta, and another teacher from Robertsville. I had many, many friends that were teachers. MRS. ROBBINS: Like you. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So, we were never lonely. MRS. ROBBINS: So, when you were teaching and busy with all of the associations, and raising your children and being a wife, was, like how much of your time every day would go toward making the home and caring for your family, and how much would go toward working? Would it just depend on the day? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It depended on the day. I tried not to neglect anything. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I tried to. MRS. ROBBINS: Did you stay up late to get everything done? MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, because getting up so early. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh you never could. Of course. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: So you probably had more finished by 8 o’clock… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: …than most people all day. Is there something you need? Okay. So what were some of the other friendships that were important to you? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, many… MRS. ROBBINS: So many. MRS. KIMMELMAN: …friends that were close to my age. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Our children were close in age. I told the children they became friends. How did we become friends, Alice? MRS. FELDMAN: Um, I think once my daughter was gone and… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Your father and Max died within… MRS. FELDMAN: Yes. MRS. KIMMELMAN: ...two days. MRS. FELDMAN: That’s right. Right at the same, at the same yahrtza [sp?]. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: I remember that like it was yesterday. Oh yeah. So just through life’s events and your children and… MRS. KIMMELMAN: And when the children married, I visited them. They visited here. They traveled. You fill your time. MRS. ROBBINS: You sure do. You do. How is it that you began to write the books? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, the book I was writing because June Adamson insisted that I leave something. It was painful. I was writing at night in bed. I still have the yellow pads that I was writing on. MRS. ROBBINS: Wow. Yeah. That was after Max died? MRS. KIMMELMAN: But I never, Max never read anything because I always told him, when it’s ready, I’ll give you to read. MRS. ROBBINS: It was not ready. Yeah. So, did you write everything and then someone helped you decided that it would be two books, or how did it work? MRS. KIMMELMAN: After I wrote it, June said to me, “Now you are going to type it up and I will look at it, and correct it.” Oh, did she have to correct it. Many, many, many times I said, why did I start this? But she was very, very good. She wanted it to go and be just the right thing of a book. MRS. ROBBINS: So did you use your father’s typewriter? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. I still have it. MRS. ROBBINS: Do you have any of the ribbons? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Pardon. MRS. ROBBINS: Do you have any of the ribbons? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I have ribbon. I don’t put it in. I cannot see now. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I cannot type now. MRS. ROBBINS: I remember once you said it was really hard to find the ribbon. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I had to find, and Shelia, I told Shelia about the trouble and she said, “I’ll get on the internet and get you some.” MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And she gave me some ribbon. MRS. ROBBINS: She got it. So you have it. So you typed and typed, and edited, and edited. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So many times. So many times, but Junes was a wonderful teacher, strict. MRS. ROBBINS: With deadlines? How did she make the arrangement with the press? Had she already gotten a contract from the press, the University of Tennessee that published your book? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, well, once I had it typed up, she submitted it for publication, and they accepted. Then it had to be retyped and then they had to, I had to design a cover, and give photographs that went into it. It was a lot of work. Max never saw it. He only knew that I was sitting in bed and writing. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. How sad, but I’m sure, it’s almost like he knew that you would. I’m sure he knew that you would write it. That it would finish. Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And the second book. It was something different. When I met Gerta, she said, look you wrote part of it, but there is so much more to write about, why don’t you write piece by piece and we’ll see how we can get it together. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And four or five years after the first book, this one was published. MRS. ROBBINS: Was it different to write the second one? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was easier. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Were, do you think it was easier because you knew what the steps would be? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I knew more about what I should write, what is needed. MRS. ROBBINS: Was the content any less painful than the first because it was mostly after the war, or because there are still so many memories, it is just as painful? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know. Gerta was of tremendous help. She helped. And when it was almost done, she said, well, there should be more. So she included my trips to Treblinka [extermination camp], at the end, that I wrote about, that I wrote in a separate little booklet. It was typed. She included it. MRS. ROBBINS: That’s it. So, you’ve written these two books. My mom mentioned earlier, but could you share for the camera about the, that you were a part of a TV series. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, you mean… MRS. ROBBINS: The PBS [Public Broadcasting System]. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The interview? MRS. ROBBINS: The interview, not PBS, but the show by Joan-Ellen [Zucker]. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, the show? MRS. ROBBINS: What was that like? MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was fantastic. I’m so glad it was done. MRS. ROBBINS: So what did you have to do? MRS. KIMMELMAN: What I had to do, about what? MRS. ROBBINS: To participate in the show. I mean the show… Are we talking about the same thing… MRS. FELDMAN: On local television. MRS. ROBBINS: …on local television. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, the local. You are not talking about the Shoah. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, no, no, no. See I was like… MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, okay. MRS. ROBBINS: I got it. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The local… I don’t know. MRS. ROBBINS: So you wrote these books, you’re part of the show. Can you share some of the other things you’ve contributed to, interviews, projects, things that you wrote, documentaries? Can you list what some of those where? MRS. KIMMELMAN: What is the question? MRS. ROBBINS: I want to know about all of the different things that you have done to share about your experiences as a survivor, and a Jewish educator. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I have spoken to churches. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I have spoken to classes. I have spoken to [inaudible]. I have spoken to civic clubs. MR. GOOD: Okay. [Inaudible crosstalk] MRS. KIMMELMAN: …I could do. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh yeah. So… [Break in video] MRS. KIMMELMAN: What is the question? MRS. ROBBINS: I guess what I was trying to understand, my mom’s question is a good one. I just wanted to sort of hear about the range of, not just the talks that you’ve done and the books that you have written, but you were also on this local TV show. You know I’ve been away for 20 years. So… MRS. KIMMELMAN: Honey, I think this is all part of the same. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay. Got it. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I consider it part of my life. MRS. ROBBINS: Got it. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay. MRS. ROBBINS: Sounds good. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Okay. MR. GOOD: What about the community Shoah program? MRS. ROBBINS: I’ll go there. MR. GOOD: Oh. MRS. ROBBINS: So are we on. MR. GOOD: Yes. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, okay. All right then. New subject. So the community Shoah project, or program that my mom was talking about. Who was the Rabbi when you first started observing Yom Hashoah at the synagogue? Which Rabbi was that? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Who was the Rabbi? Zucker. MRS. ROBBINS: Okay, and what was that first commemoration like? MRS. KIMMELMAN: He was very supportive. His parents were from Germany. His father was a Rabbi in Germany. Very supportive. He was here a very short time. MRS. ROBBINS: And now what is the Shoah observance like? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Now, you mean we are talking… MRS. ROBBINS: In the synagogue. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The synagogue observance. MRS. ROBBINS: Of Yom Hashoah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We, for the last three years, we are joining, the first year we joined with Knoxville. We invited them to come and be a part of our Shoah observance. The next year, Knoxville said they want to do it alone. They don’t want to join us. We asked the Unitarian Church and this year was the second year the Unitarian Church, and I think they did a very good job. They are sincere. They are helpful. And we cannot ask for anything else. MRS. ROBBINS: The reverend for the church is Jinks’ son. Is that right? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Jinks’ brother is the minister of the Unitarian Church. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh, it’s her brother. Oh, okay. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Her son. MRS. ROBBINS: It is her son. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Son. I’m sorry. MRS. ROBBINS: No, no. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Son, yeah. For the last year. MRS. ROBBINS: So how do you think, how did it happen? You know you start from this small observation, working with the Rabbi, to this project that is across two congregations, its involved Knoxville. It’s a much bigger occasion. MRS. KIMMELMAN: The Rabbi’s supportive of it, absolutely. The Rabbi talks about his experiences too. MRS. ROBBINS: What are some of the other things that you’ve notice in the community in terms of how people talk about the Holocaust now, versus when you first began. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I think they are more supportive now because they know more. At the beginning, they had no idea what Holocaust meant, what we went through. They know much more. If they are the children of the, people who heard me talk, they heard it. They read about it, and they buy the book still. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So… MRS. ROBBINS: So you played a really important role for sure. MRS. KIMMELMAN: In a small community. MRS. ROBBINS: In a small community. MRS. KIMMELMAN: That’s fine. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I say if only one percent of those that heard me will spread it and will teach it, it will go on. No more than one percent of them. MRS. ROBBINS: Absolutely. Do you have a question? So ask. MRS. FELDMAN: Okay, when, during the first observances with Rabbi Zucker, was it all Jews that attended the observation? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yes. MRS. FELDMAN: And then it… MRS. KIMMELMAN: It was at the synagogue. MRS. FELDMAN: Now we have many people coming of other… MRS. KIMMELMAN: At the beginning it was only the synagogue. Then when Rabbi Zucker left, I said we have to do something. The others were really enthusiastic about it. I said, I’m going to teach the children and the children will do it, and for, I have folders, 10, 12 years, the children every Sunday in May when we have Yom Hashoah, the children would have a program and their parents came. So that’s when it started more, and more, and more. Then we asked if the parents would also participate in doing a reading and that is how it grew. Then I said, I cannot do it anymore. We have to join others. Knoxville wanted to join us, but they are so independent. They are large, and they wanted to do it on Yom Hashoah. We could only do it on Sunday. MRS. ROBBINS: Any other thoughts or questions about the Shoah? If not I wanted to just ask some general questions about JCOR. MR. GOOD: The question I have is now that the Unitarians have joined, they have an education program… MRS. KIMMELMAN: They have…we meet usually in May and June to plan for next year Yom Hashoah, and then the beginning of the year, they set aside for six weeks a Sunday when they have, and we have jointly a lesson about the Holocaust, a history about the Holocaust. Then we ask them to do some readings. They are enthusiastic and they want to. They do a beautiful job. MRS. ROBBINS: Wow. That’s great. MRS. FELDMAN: You made it real to them. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We don’t have the children any more. MRS. ROBBINS: Right. MRS. KIMMELMAN: So we are using, some of the Beth El Temple children come, the ones that are interested are coming and reading for us. MRS. ROBBINS: You mean the Beth El Temple in Knoxville. MRS. KIMMELMAN: [Nods head affirmative] MRS. ROBBINS: Wow. So is there anything else that you would like to share about Yom Hashoah observations or other Holocaust commemorations in East Tennessee that you have noticed? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I think that we are doing now what every community should do, and they do it. We observe it. The Men’s Club distributes candles. We have candles for burning. We involve the young people. We involve parents. We involve the teachers. That’s about all we can do. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: And we sell the books. The books are there for anybody who wants to buy them. MRS. ROBBINS: That’s great. So is there a question. MRS. FELDMAN: Sort of an observation. I think that people who have read about the history of it, even in recent history books, to hear you speak and to be somebody that they see and can touch, it makes it real to them. It’s sort of living proof, and I think that really makes a difference to people, to educate them about it and make it real. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I only hope that every synagogue will have somebody that will perpetuate the teaching of the Holocaust. That it is not lost with the last survivor, but that it continues to be a teaching tool and a lesson for the young ones. Well, it’s scary to think about, but a friend of mine in Blacksburg [Virginia] is the granddaughter of a survivor, two survivors and her parents were born in liberation camps, or her mother at least, just her mother, and she’s still a leader in Holocaust education, not just the Holocaust but anti-oppression and she’s a poet. So a lot of her poetry focuses on that. I think of her often as someone that is carrying the torch. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah, God willing, you know. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Who knows, maybe one of my grandchildren will want to. MRS. ROBBINS: And you have so many other children and grandchildren, right? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Yeah. MRS. ROBBINS: Like me. I just have one last topic. Thinking back on all of your years with the Jewish congregation, what are some of your fondest memories that really stand out, that took place in the synagogue? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I think this community has been so supportive. In good, and in sad times. It was like a substitute of families, but it is disappearing because the people are disappearing. They are going away, or they are dying, and the younger generation doesn’t have this connection anymore to the past. MRS. ROBBINS: What do you wish young people now would do if they knew what you know? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I don’t know. I don’t know how the young people today think. I don’t know what is important to them anymore. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. So, what’s a time that you remember in JCOR, like in the building, when we were really, really happy, or really, really proud? MRS. KIMMELMAN: You’ll have to repeat the question because I didn’t understand. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh. Thinking of all the time’s that you’ve spent in the building, at the synagogue… MRS. KIMMELMAN: In the synagogue. MRS. ROBBINS: In the synagogue, when were some times that you remember feeling really happy or proud? MRS. KIMMELMAN: I was always happy to see children participating in services, becoming Bar or Bat Mitzvahed, taking the time to study what they usually would not study, and being proud of it. MRS. ROBBINS: What are some of the memories of services that you’ve attended, you know other than things with the children who were, who had been educated… MRS. KIMMELMAN: We used to go to Friday night service and Saturday morning service. MRS. ROBBINS: All the time. MRS. KIMMELMAN: We did it. MRS. ROBBINS: How has the service changed over the years? MRS. KIMMELMAN: Everything shortened. Everything became less important. It is more a socializing event than a spiritual event. The needs are different. The times have changed. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. If you had a time machine, 50 years from now, you’re somehow there in 50 years, what would you hope you would see. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Oh, honey, I’m not a prophet. [Laughter] No. MRS. ROBBINS: I wouldn’t dare. MRS. KIMMELMAN: No, I only hope that the families would stick together, that there would be that connection, the family connection. If a family sticks together, everything becomes a little easier. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I cannot predict what the future will bring. God knows it. MRS. ROBBINS: Yeah. Go for it. MRS. FELDMAN: Mira, how do you think being, the synagogue, the congregation really being born out of the war made it different and made your presence here, and almost predestined. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Will you please repeat the question? MRS. FELDMAN: How do you think that the fact that Oak Ridge Jewish community was born out of war, and some of our earliest members were sent down here during the war, how do you think that fact affected your life here, and the nature of the Jewish community. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Well, it, to tell you the truth, until I came to Oak Ridge I had no idea what Oak Ridge was, what Oak Ridge produced and why Oak Ridge, I had no idea. I learned about it when I lived here already. I think the war itself strengthened the Jewish connection here, but it wouldn’t affect us because we were a product of the war too. So, I took it as a normal thing, but God only knows what will be in 20 years, in 10 years, we don’t know. I only hope that there is enough of a Jewish spirit to keep a Jewish congregation here, and if not here, in Knoxville. It doesn’t matter where it is, as long as the people stick together. That’s it. MRS. ROBBINS: Is there anything else that you want to share, that I haven’t asked about. MRS. KIMMELMAN: I want to thank you. I want to thank you for being the one who took the time to speak to me. And to know I was talking to you. MRS. ROBBINS: Oh. MRS. KIMMELMAN: Now you are talking to me and it felt so good. MRS. ROBBINS: Are you kidding? Thank you. [Laughter] Thank you for the education you gave me, first of all, and thank you for being always a model for how to be a Jewish adult, of never being afraid to talk about the past, and for always being a part of my family, and for your time today, which I really appreciate. MRS. KIMMELMAN: My pleasure, honey. Thank you, honey, thank you. MRS. ROBBINS: Thank you. [End of Interview] Back to top Home|About|Contact Us|Facebook PagePowered by CONTENTdm®

Sources

• Arolsen Archives. Name: Mira Mary Ryczke

Gender: weiblich (Female) Nationality: Deutsch Juden Record Type: Miscellaneous Birth Date: 17 Sep 1923 Birth Place: Zoppot Last Residence: Danzig Residence Place: Rötz Waldmünchen Reference Number: 02010101 oS Source Citation Arolsen Archives, Digital Archive; Bad Arolsen, Germany; Lists of Persecutees 2.1.1.1; Series: 2.1.1.1

• https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/knoxnews/obituary.aspx?n=mira-ryczke-kimmelman&pid=192590838&fhid=17387