Discussion of Template Use

+14 votes
646 views
From the Pre-1500 Badge holders, there has been a discussion around project template use.   A couple of very specific items

1) Should a profile have more than project template...yes, but how many is too many?

2) Who decides if a profile gets a project template?
in Policy and Style by Robin Lee G2G6 Pilot (869k points)
retagged by Dorothy Barry

Any subject can be categorised in different ways at the same time. There are definitely post-1500 profilles (for example: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Adriaens-67) that do have more than one template on, because they relate to at least two related but destinct projects. So why not pre-1500?

I agree that a clutter should be avoided; this can be solved by a combination of {{Templates|Project}} and [[Category:Project]] usage. Such as the main subject / project (or two) getting the template, and the other related subjects the category.

My focus though is currently on post-1500 profiles, and mainly on those between 1600 and 1850. So I do not have examples of pre-1500 that would fit the bill.

Completely agree with this solution. Some profiles would look very cluttered if we added, for instance, all the Roots templates that match them.

6 Answers

+6 votes
I'm sure I have seen in a G2G discussion a view expressed that there shouldn't be anymore than 2 project templates on any one profile, and given that a project template indicates that a particular project is managing that profile, having any more than two actively manage a profile would seem to create more problems than it would solve.

Just looking at the Euroaristo project, I know there can be overlap with other projects, such as Magna Carta, Notables, Scottish Clans, and the various projects relate to countries - German roots, Italian roots, United Kingdom etc.  and probably other projects as well.

If having too many project templates is a problem, we can either strictly apply project templates only to those profiles being actively managed, or perhaps there is some discussion and we tighten up the parameters of who is actually covered by each project and have less overlap?
by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (626k points)

I did not know that "...given that a project template indicates that a particular project is managing that profile...

Where is this stated as policy?

If you have a look at the Help: Project Boxes page then it has some interesting information about project templates.

It does state that the purpose of project boxes is to indicate which project to collaborate with if you want to work on a particular profile.

It does definitely state that there should never be more than 2 project boxes.

Also that project boxes shouldn't necessarily be placed on all profiles that fit within their project, particularly if the project is a far reaching one.And that if a project isn't actively collaborating on a profile than the project template should be removed.

It doesn't actually state that it indicates a project is actively managing a profile, but that would be my interpretation of the information on the page.

>> It does definitely state that there should never be more than 2 project boxes.

Odd rule one profile can be of interests for more projects. 

If the problem is that you get too "much" fancy icons in the profile ==> then redesign the user interface and hide if more than 2 boxes...

I think the idea isn't how many projects might be interested in a profile, but how many projects are actively collaborating on a profile.
keep in mind, you could always put extra templates at the bottom of the profile. It's when they're all at the top that it's a problem. Too much scrolling needed to get to the narrative.

I'm still a fan of having no more than two (I prefer only one) template on a profile.  The other projects within which the profile falls can then be listed in a line below the template with inline links to them.  For example, the Magna Carta template is on a profile.  Below that we could add a line with links to other projects.  I have done this on a profile to give you an example:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Forz-1  We could change the wording.  This is just an example.  I just like the looks of this better than a bunch of templates, and personally I don't see a need for all of them. . .

Darlene - Co-Leader, British Isles Royals & Aristocrats 742-1499 Project

That's a pretty cool profile! I like the way it looks.

Why not do as we do when we have long TOC hide it

See profile Le_Maistre-5

you can hide the TOC why not hide the template section and show it when we would like to show it?!?!?

No one would start restricting a TOC to 2 headlines because otherwise it will be too long ;-)


 
Your last choice is stored in a cookie ==> next time you see a long TOC it will be minimized if that was what you did last time...

The problem with 'hiding' templates is that newbies won't have any clue about them.  Templates are necessary when a project is PPP'd, as well as certain ones that are rather 'significant' profiles or when a project is managing a profile (EuroAristo members end up managing a lot of profiles that are 'abandoned' even though we have no personal interest, other than the project, in them; I've started switching those over to the project as manager).  It also is nice to have a way for newbies to be informed of a project.  That's why I like the line below the 'chosen' template.  It makes people aware of other projects on Wikitree that they might otherwise know nothing about, but it doesn't detract from the looks of the profile . . .

Just my two cents worth . . .

@Darlene then always show 2 and hide if its more than xxxx

As I can't see the source code of profile Forz-1 
I guess with your approach it will not be seen on Special:Whatlinkshere/Project:British_Isles_Royals_and_Aristocrats_742-1499 which maybe is not your intention and if Aleš starts to create more template related errors (see link) he will not find those profiles........…

 

Magnus, I see no reason to have templates on a profile if they are going to be hidden.  With what I used on the sample profile, there is only one template.  So there wouldn't be a template related error, which would be a very good thing!  EuroAristo is already over the top with db_errors!  ;)
Using a template is a way to group people....just adding a link then this profile will not be found so easy...

I should ask the Template people to add a parameter to the template and when adding that parámeter it will generate the display that looks like you would like to have it....
For this particular example, since it has the Magna Carta project template,  and every profile in the Magna Carta project falls within the EuroAristo project, it's o.k. that it doesn't group them together due to not having a EuroAristo template also.  At least, I'm o.k. with it.  I would welcome other EuroAristo leaders and project members to pipe in . . .
Just my opinion of course, but I think that Magna Carta trumps  Euro/British Isles Aristo so if a profile is identified as part of the Magna Carta project I see no need to add the Aristo template (s).

The case is different for a profile that is part of very different projects like for instance a Settlers project and Black Sheep....
+6 votes
The idea of identifying a profile with a template I think arose while the idea of "actively managing" was much less developed.  My first project was Magna Carta, where it was a strict rule that the template got displayed only AFTER the most active management process of expanding, editing and correcting the profile had taken place.  It was not at all clear to me at the time, from my perspective, what residual role the project would retain for the profiles once they had been developed.

I recall discussion that the profile of a person who had his own page on Wikipedia deserved a Notables template, but I don't recall any discussion on what the Notables Project (which I'm not a member of) would do with profiles to which anyone had added that template.  So I"ve happily added a Notables template to profiles where there was a corresponding Wikipedia entry, thinking I was doing a favor.  If it turns out I'm creating responsibility which hadn't been asked for, I'll stop!

Now for some groups, like Euroaristo (which I am a member of) , template + active management + a project email group means that everyone in the email group gets notifications of any changes to the profile or merge requests, which is a greater degree of active management than many might want.

It would seem appropriate that  how and when templates should be used should be determined largely by the project, perhaps within certain broad parameters.

From that perspective, it would be extremely helpful to have a free-space page with a table on it identifying the template, the project it is associated with, when it should be displayed, who should display it (and who not).

Limiting templates to two would certainly keep profile clutter more manageable, and maybe promote collaboration among projects ("I'll trade you two German counts for a French duke")
by Jack Day G2G6 Pilot (465k points)
  1. Why limit isnt it better to change the user interface so it hide templates if more than two....
     
  2. I feel the problem is more inactivity I check famous people on WIkiTree who died this year and most profile are not research or connected 
Yeah, that is weird.

I clicked on the one I actually know something about - Nicky Hayden.  It looks as if someone created a "shell" profile when he died, without bothering to add his (well known) mother, father, and brothers.
+3 votes
Certainly, a profile should have more than 1 project template if it is relevant to more than 1 project.  For instance, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Haudecour-1 Jean Haudecoeur fits in Québécois project, and also fits in Black Sheep project.

The display resulting from the use of these project templates could indeed stand some adjustment.  He also has the non-project template for French immigrants to New France.  Does get a bit invasive if all you want to see is the bio.  Possibly the size of the display could be changed so it is smaller, side by side if more than one.

2) who decides if a profile gets a project template?  Guess the profile manager or a project member who contributes to the profile would decide.  Not all profiles bearing the project template would be managed by the actual project, certainly it is not the case for Québécois project.  Since my ancestry is mostly here from the early days of the colony, I could stick the template on all of them and it would be accurate.  But I don't do that, I put the template mostly on important ancestors (ie lots of descendants or some other form of prominence).
by Danielle Liard G2G6 Pilot (672k points)
+1 vote

For me a Wiki is a way to learn more.

  1. If someone is interested in a profile and have a project I think it would be an excellent way to communicate that I also would like to be part of developing this profile and I have skills in e.g. Military records or Prison records or this part of the US or...
     
  2. If there is a problem that the template part take too much space
    1. I have earlier suggested add a research tab to discuss a profile. Putting project templates on the research tab would be excellent
       
    2. Or make it possible to show fewer templates... see G2G comment  
       
    3. Not adding a project template to a project qualified I think is the wrong way to go.... someday someone is interested in finding all profiles in this project.... see what people do today with WikiTree data what will they do next...

      I guess WikiTree will develop and be much more advanced. Already today I see people starting to create statistics to track how different things change over time... 


       


How a Research tab could look

by Living Sälgö G2G6 Pilot (299k points)
edited by Living Sälgö
+6 votes
I guess because I am new to the idea of project templates I don't really understand what their overall purpose is..  

I have read the help and the notes here but I am still not sure how they work...

Do they alert members of the project when one is added to a profile?

How exactly does its appearance on a profile stir collaboration?

They seem to be big and take up a lot of space so I can see why having too many would not be ideal...  but how does a newbie know which one to use if you can only pick 2 and you think the profile fits more than two.. I like the suggestion of picking the two you think most appropriate and then being able to list but hide others.  

I am not sure we even have a good list of current working templates.  And are all templates also categories?  

Go to:  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Help:Templates

Do all projects require one now, I thought I read that someplace that all projects now required a template.  Honestly I found this help page to be very confusing...   

I get that these are a way to organize but so are categories... what is the difference?

Really I am not trying to be difficult but I am finding this very hard to follow and understand.  I have done very complex system documentation and training for over 20 years and this has totally confused me.
by Laura Bozzay G2G6 Pilot (839k points)
I think it would be helpful to have one post that explains the differences between these concepts (eg project box, user box, template).  I am starting to get confused as well, being completely honest :-)
+3 votes
The use of templates/project boxes has changed but there are a couple of rules that I am pretty certain I understand. Correct me if I am wrong, please.

Any profile that is PPP must be designated as a project profile.  That used to mean adding a project box.

Now, the rule is a profile only needs a template/project box if the project account manages the profile.

So therefore, now a PPP profile needs to be managed by a project account and have a project box above the Biography heading.

Templates that are for recognition, such as some military templates must be used under the Biography heading.

There should not be more than two project boxes on a profile.

I know it is tempting to add many templates. For example, many Southern Colonists are also Revolutionary War veterans.  In that case, I think most members would prefer to see the 1776 template.  I think (this is just personal opinion) what is the more significant project designation for that profile should be the template that is used.

I am not certain that this is correct so I hope someone will correct me if it is not.  

I have definitely been told twice that a project box is not needed unless a project account is project manager of a profile and that recognition templates go under the Bio heading.
by Paula J G2G6 Pilot (282k points)

This is a false premise [on 2 points]: "Now, the rule is a profile only needs a template/project box if the project account manages the profile." ...

  • The project account managing a profile is definitely not a prerequisite for a profile to have a template box.
  • And - different rules for different projects. One project adds a template box after primary validation (such as a baptism image - which pre-1500 is going to be highly unlikely), the other adds before / during and works through stages of validation.
I think you'll find that no templates, project boxes, recognition boxes go beneath the ==Biography== heading.
No project boxes but yes, recognition templates per Abby. Examples: Civil War template, Killed in Action

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