Isn't it standard to name the eldest son the father's name?

Question

In this scenario, the 4th son was given the name of his father John. John Jr.'s mother is a second wife and her name is unlisted and, even more oddly, is that her second son by John Sr. is named John instead of the first.  

In our modern era, I thought the eldest is named after the father (if any sons are). Was this not the tradition in the 1700s?  I think the info online must be incorrect and, indeed, the info on other sites also seems incorrect in an even more bizarre, illogical way (two sons with name John!).

There are 2+ profiles for him on WikiTree, but one is empty.

Comments

Naming two sons John is not unusual. One could be named for John the Baptist, the other for St. John the Devine.

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I know a family in modern times (well, 70 years ago) that named the third son after the father. Their system might have been what Ros lists below.

It did seem confusing to many people.

Answer 1

Welcome, TW!  Naming a younger son 'Jr' is not at all uncommon.  It's certainly not unusual enough to cast doubt on the family and connections.  Two children with the same name is also not too unusual.  Couples would sometimes give a baby the name of an older sibling who died previously.  So, a same-name child with an empty profile might be a duplicate, or it might be a sibling who died in infancy.

The best way to resolve such doubts is to find as many contemporary sources for them as possible.

Edit to add:  I hope the person who downvoted your question thinks better on it, and corrects his or her vote.

Comments

I completely agree.

In addition in the 16th and 17th centuries (in England) you quite often  find two children with the same name, even when the first is still living. I recently transcribed a will with two Johns (designated the younger and the elder) and two Elizabeths (one married, one called Elizabeth the younger)

Just to be difficult you will also often find two individuals ; father and son, uncle and nephew or two cousins designated in records as elder and younger or Snr and Jnr.

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In my own family my great-uncles' names go against convention.  The oldest son got his first and middle names from his mother and grandmother's maiden names.  The second son shares his father's name and was the "Junior."

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Thanks.  I see now that it is has been done by a more recent ancestor.  He name both kids George as a first name and i had to look at the census vs. what I found online.  Thank goodness the 1870 census decided to start adding initials to most names!  That was how i straightened it out with the Georges. I may've seen one instance where my family named the girls the same given name, too, but, as with the boys, added additional names. The Johns in question are from about year 1700.

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Thanks for the star TW!

Answer 2

Depends where you are in the world.  In England and Scotland (and many other countries, too) some families went by a naming pattern, thus:

• The first son was named after the father's father.
• The second son was named after the mother's father.
• The third son was named after the father.
• The fourth son was named after the father's eldest brother.
• The first daughter after the mother's mother.
• The second daughter after the father's mother.

Comments

This can be very useful.  For example:

John (the father) names his first son William.  So you can guess that John's father is also called William.

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Except sometimes it was the reverse -- eldest after the mother's father, second after the father's father, etc.

Answer 3

Not in Scotland.  Common naming pattern is

1st Son Father's father

2nd Son, Mother's father

3rd Son, father

1st Daughter Mothers mother

2nd daughter Father's mother

3rd daughter mother

Comments

That's what I just said. Re-read my answer and match it with your own.  The only difference is that the 4th son was named after the father's eldest brother.

Answer 4

This is the way some families named their children when families were larger.  

Naming patterns:

• The first son was named after the father's father
• The second son was named after the mother's father
• The third son was named after the father
• The fourth son was named after the father's eldest brother
• The first daughter after the mother's mother
• The second daughter after the father's mother
• The third daughter after the mother
• The fourth daughter after the mother's eldest sister

Comments

Traditional Scottish Naming Patterns - WikiTree G2G

Answer 5

Naming patterns changed throughout history and based on culture. The Anglo-Saxons, for example, rarely named a son after the father at all unless he was a posthumous son. They did, however, enjoy theme-naming, like this sibling set: Eormenbeorh, Eormenburh, and Eormengyth, all children of (who else?) Eormenred.

Some Jews (but not all) also had a taboo about naming their children after living relatives. 

Also, in eras before widespread literacy, I think often parents had a fairly small pool of names to choose from. You might only know a handful of names from your village or maybe from hearing the priest or pastor discussing the Bible in church. It's not like today, when you can go to a website or buy a baby name book. 

Answer 6

Everything is possible.

In some families we have in Germany the same tradition Ros wrote. In other families not a single son got fathers name.

And in the Harz mountain area I have a lot of families, who gave all their sons the first given name Johann. And all brothers of the father and grandfather are also have the first name Johann.

I found one family in Brandenburg who gave all five sons exact the same first and second given name. That is normally only done, if the oder one died before. But in this case only the eldest son stayed alive until he became adult.

Answer 7

This is not particularly relevant, but somewhat amusing. The eldest son of my great-grandfather William Horne Campbell was named William Norman Campbell, "William" being in honour of William Horne Campbell's father William Campbell (or perhaps in honour of WHC himself). But this son was always called Norman, not William. (My mother regarded it as stupid to name a child after someone and then always call the child by another name.) Anyway, when WHC's fifth son was born WHC's sisters complained that WHC didn't have a son named William (since the eldest son was called Norman). So the fifth son was named William Horne Campbell, to keep the sisters happy.

Answer 8

Sometimes the “first” son bearing the name did not survive so a “subsequent” son was named after the grandfather or father as the case may be. I have one family  where the youngest son  is named after the paternal grandfather, apparently  because the  older son (the couple’s  first born son) survived for many years but not into adulthood.

Answer 9

The more common naming pattern traditionally was for the eldest son to be named after the paternal grandfather, 2nd son after maternal grandfather. This is common among people from all over the British Isles. However, it was also not unheard of for more than one child to receive the same name (I have an ancestor who named two of his sons John, and named to them both in his will when he died in 1695, with the younger referred to as "my second son of that name, usually called Johannes for distinction's sake").