Accuracy of baptismal record

Question

I have here a profile of which I'm not so sure if the dtb-records are actually accurate because there is the possibilty that it is a (Huguenot) French surname already Dutchified in the Netherlands in the 17th century. I actually need to read the record itself and not merely the entry in the index. It makes all the difference between 'de' and 'le' (the name soon in later generations morphed into ''de Klerk'').

Answer 1

Here are the baptism images of all persons mentioned in the bio:

18 May 1670 - Abraham son of Pieter Abrahamsen de Clerck and Sara Barendts Corset

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-31113-6391-73?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 113 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

11 Oct 1671 - Abraham son of Pieter Abrahamsen de Clerck and Sara Barendts Casset

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-31113-6552-58?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 114 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

14 Jan 1674 - Barendt son of Pieter Abrahamsen de Clerck and Sara Barendtsen Casset

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-31113-5661-61?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 117 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

Pieter 3 Apr 1630

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-31113-6356-74?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 33 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

Susanna 1 Apr 1632

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1951-31113-6632-54?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 38 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

Pieter & Saertje 4 Oct 1634

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-31113-6531-95?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 46 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

Janneken 21 Jan 1637

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1961-31113-6169-47?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 18 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 53 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

Comments

Wonderful, thanks so much Jan! I appreciate it very much ... now it is going to be a puzzle to collate these baptismal records with this information I got from Ron Ton ...

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Running some other variant spellings I also found:

3 May 1676 - Jannetje daughter of Pieter Abrahamse de Klerck and Sara Bevers Kachet

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-31113-6732-52?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 19 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 119 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

16 Oct 1678 - Joos son of Pieter Abrahamssen de Klerck and Sara Barens Kisset

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1942-31113-6446-57?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 19 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 122 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

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Oh good heavens, when it rains it verily pours .... Only joking Ton, thanks again for the info. I'll have to start somewhere so I'll start with Sara Couchet, then first "do" (also looking for rogue duplicates) her children and then backwards into the family ...

Thanks for the stunning help; this family name is the family name of F.W. de Klerk, the 7th and last president of South Africa under the Apartheid era, who together with Nelson Mandela got the Nobel Peace Prize in 1993 ... he is a direct descendant ....

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Jan & Ron, you've both helped so much, thanks! Though it is slow working through the profiles it takes so much load of my shoulders having the sourcing and research already done ...

Answer 2

Hi Philip, 

Didn't find the actual baptism record for him but the archive/ searchengine (Zeeuwen gezocht) gives the name as '''de Clercq'''  see here a list with all the : de Clercq added a post to the profile of his Brother with this same link as well, because his baptims you can find here, no actual records here (you have to pay money for a copy), but  with this info you can find the record at familysearch if it's correct.

And here's a list with the ''de Klerk'' people :)

Well I'm of now , have to pack for our holiday, no WT for four weeks  hahaha , but will be home once a week to do some laundry and fresh water my mail and urgent WT stuff of course 

Comments

Genietze Bea!

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Dankjewel Philip , doe ik ! 

Answer 3

I went over the various Serooskerke records for variants on this surname that I would associate as elder relatives and then looked at the surname spellings. There are 27 records between 1623 and 1646 (Baptisms and Lidmaten) that I speculate are associated with the original group of siblings and their children. The earliest spelling at Serooskerke uses "le Clerck".

Summarizing the variations, the prefix "le" is used 17 times in the records with use shifting over time to 'de' which is used 19 times (these numbers also include the names of witnesses in the records and therefore do not add to 27)

Of the actual aftername the frequency of the variants in the period up to 1646 is: Clercq (26x); Clerck (6x); Clerc (3x); and, Clerq (1x) - there is no specific pattern to when the variations happen. The variant de Klerck does not appear until the 1670's

Based on only the indexed records My speculation on the original family members and their spouses would be (not having marriage records makes it difficult to have any confidence that the records I have associated as second marriages are not marriages of children or nephews and nieces):

1. Anthonij, first wife: Martijnken/Matijngien Andries, second wife: Janneken Ruijters/de Ruyter
2. Ester, husband: Pieter Craeye
3. Mari, husband: Ja[c]ques Willems[en]
4. Pieter, wife: Claesine/Claertje Cordie; possible second wife Jacomijne Joncheer
5. Abraham, wife: Adriaentjen Onoff; possible second wife Arjaentjen Joossen.

Obviously since I am only speculating, some of these could easily be cousins or could just have a similar surname by coincidence at not be related at all.

I'll post the list of records I considered in a comment to this answer.

Comments

1623-02-05 - Abraham son of Anthonij le Clerck and Martijnken Andries
1623-04-01 -    Lidmaat: Anthoni le Clercq ("Met attestatie van de Franse Kerk te Middelburg")
1626-09-20 - Abraham son of Anthonij de Clerc and Martijngien Andries
1627-12-26 - Makyen daughter of Pieter Craeye and Ester de Clerc
1629-04-07 -    Lidmaat: Anthoni le Clercq ("Diens echtgenote, overleden 07-04-1629")
1629-12-19 - Pieter son of Jaques Willems and Mari le Clercq (witnesses Abraham le Clercq and Nicole Cordie)
1630-04-03 - Abraham son of Pieter de Clercq and Claeseine Cordie
1630-09-15 - Pieter son of Anthoni le Clercq and Janneken Ruijters
1632-03-14 - Johannes son of Anthoni le Clercq and Janneken Ruitjers
1632-03-21 - Magdalena daughter of Jaques Willems and Mari le Clercq (witness: Anthoni le Clerq)
1632-04-01 - Susanna daughter of Pieter le Clercq and Claseine Cordie
1634-03-04 - Janneken daughter of Jaques Willems and Mari de Clercq (witnesses: Isaac de Clercq and Janneken Ruijters)
1634-10-04 - Pieter (twin) of Pieter de Clercq and Clasijne Cordie (witnesses: Anthoni le Clercq, Saertje de Clercq, Adriaentje Onoff)
1634-10-04 - Saertje (twin) daughter of Pieter de Clercq and Clasijne Cordie (witnesses: Anthoni le Clercq, Saertje de Clercq, Adriaentje Onoff)
1634-12-24 -    Lidmaat: Abraham le Clercq and Adriaentjen Onoff ("Met attestatie van West-Souburg")
1635-10-19 - Aernout son of Abraham de Clerck and Adriaentje Onoff (witness: Anthoni de Clerck)
1635-12-16 - Johannes son of Anthoni le Clerck and Janneken Ruyters
1637-01-21 - Janneken daughter of Pieter de Clerc and Claertje Cordie
1637-08-23 - Janneken daughter of Jacques Willemsen and Mari le Clercq (witness: Adriaentje Onoff)
1637-12-30 - [illegible] child of Anthoni de Clercq and Janneken Ruyters
1638-01-03 - Stoffelijntje daughter of Abraham de Clercq and Adriaentje Onoff
1640-06-14 - Maetje daughter of Anthoni le Clercq and Janneken de Ruyter (witness: Abraham de Clercq)
1641-05-12 - Susanneken daughter of Abraham le Clercq and Adriaentje Onoff
1643-05-10 - Judick daughter of Pieter de Clercq and Jacomijne Joncheer
1643-10-04 - Pieter son of Abraham de Clerck and Adriaentje Onoff
1643-11-15 - Leuntje daughter of Anthoni de Clercq and Janneken Ruijters
1646-04-02 - Arijaenken daughter of Abraham de Clerck and Arjaentjen Joossen

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Wonderful, thanks Rob! I'll collate the info that you've provided with this source (though it is very reliable it does not always give the correct (final) LNAB; what it does provide is the variations of the surname in the records per person ...): Sara (Coussèt) Couchet

It's going to be a long day figuring this all out, getting the basic profiles & LNsAB correctly sourced and cited and ready for protection ...

Thanks Rob, you and Jan both have been a great help!

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Hi Ron, your response to me that this baptismal record 1643-10-04 - Pieter son of Abraham de Clerck and Adriaentje Onoff (including Parents) is the correct baptismal record to go with this profile (still waiting to be merged with Le_Clercq-23) is correct. This source supports it. I need to remove the baptismal entrie(s) because they go with the profile of the conflated twin born in 1634. I already disconnect the wrong parent profiles (see the notice(s)).

What I need though and have difficulty in finding myself (and  pay for ...!?!) is the baptismal entry for him. If you do not have time to help (you have been an amazing help sofar), could you just point me in the right direction. Which site / archive did you use? Did you pay or do you have membership ...?

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I found the record in question indexed by the Zeeuws Archief which publishes it's indexes on Archieven.nl along with a number of other archives - I then used Zoekakten.nl to find the likely file I needed to look at on FamilySearch.org - then flipped through until I found the date and entry in question. All of this was free.

Link to the Indexed record on Archieven.nl:

http://www.archieven.nl/nl/search-modonly?mivast=239&mizig=862&miadt=239&miaet=54&micode=995-SKW-1&minr=15491788&miview=ldt

Automatically generated citation of the corresponding FamilySearch Image:

"Netherlands, Zeeland Province, Church Records, 1527-1907," images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.3.1/TH-1971-31113-6065-69?cc=2036997&wc=MCLP-86D:345031601,347626201,347626202 : accessed 20 July 2015), Nederlands Hervormd > Serooskerke op Walcheren > Dopen 1623-1680 Dopen 1676-1809 > image 71 of 296; Nederlands Rijksarchiefdienst, Den Haag (Netherlands National Archives, The Hague).

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Rob, you rocK! Thanks so much again ... you've helped tremendously ...!