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Avice (Lancaster) de Morville (abt. 1140 - 1191)

Avice de Morville formerly Lancaster
Born about in Westmorland, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Wife of — married before 1170 (to 1189) [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Died at about age 51 in Kirkoswald, Cumberland, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 7 Aug 2011
This page has been accessed 9,777 times.
The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Contents

Biography

Birth

Lewis gives an approximate birth date of 1134[1], but if her mother was born about 1120, than a closer estimated date of birth would be 1140.

Parents

Farrer supposed that Avice was the daughter of William II de Lancaster[2], however it seems unlikely since the second William had a well-known daughter with the same name, who was in the main line of descent, and therefore much discussed in the records.

Marriage

In the 16th of Henry II (1169/70) the Pipe Rolls under Lancaster show that " Morevill promised Henry II 200 marks for a writ of right of the lands which he claimed in marriage with his said wife" , the daughter of William de Lancaster. See Pipe Rolls p.53 [3]

See for example the old ODNB article for her husband.[4]

Death

Richard and Avice confirmed to the monks of Furness, lands in Selside in Ribblesdale and Newby, Yorks., the year before Avice's death which occurred in December, 1192. [3]

Sources

  1. Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins.
  2. Farrer, William. Lancashire Inquests, Extents, and Feudal Aids. (W. Barton and Co., Liverpool, 1903) p. 3.
  3. 3.0 3.1 "Introduction" in Records Relating To the Barony of Kendale Volume 1, ed. William Farrer and John F Curwen (Kendal: Titus Wilson and Son, 1923), pp. vii-xvii. British History Online
  4. Richard on WikiSource
  • Cawley, Charles. Medieval Lands: A prosopography of medieval European noble and royal families. Hosted online by the Foundation for Medieval Genealogy (FMG), accessed 2021, Lancaster.




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Comments: 10

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Some of Doug Richardson comments- If this information is correct, then Avice de Lancaster would presumably be the daughter of William (Fitz Gilbert) de Lancaster I, as Avice wife of Richard de Morville is usually assigned as one of William I's children. If so, then Avice de Lancaster would have to have been born no later than say 1134, if she was the wife of William Peverel the younger in 1149. Avice de Lancaster, wife of Richard de Morville, is the maternal grandmother of well known Alan Fitz Roland,

lord of Galloway. AND AND I believe that the historian, Judith Green, has correctly identified Avice de Lancaster, wife of William Peverel the younger, as the daughter of William de Lancaster I. Avice apparently married (1st) William Peverel the younger, of Nottingham (living 1155), and (2nd) Richard de Morville (died 1189), Constable of Scotland. Avice died in 1191.

https://slektogdata.no/slektsforum/viewtopic.php?t=26712

This Richard(Morevill) married Avice, daughter of William de Lancaster I, at whose death in 1170, Morevill promised Henry II 200 marks for a writ of right of the lands which he claimed in marriage with his said wife. (fn. 7) As this fine was recorded on the Lancashire Pipe Roll, it would appear that the lands which he claimed were in Lancashire or Lonsdale, rather than in Kentdale. Richard and Avice confirmed to the monks of Furness, lands in Selside in Ribblesdale and Newby, Yorks., the year before Avice's death which occurred in December, 1192.

https://www.british-history.ac.uk/kendale-barony/vol1/vii-xvii

Richard & Avice had 2 children-William who died in 1196 & Helen/Elena who died on June 11, 1217.

http://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/enguntlo.htm#RichardMorvilledied1189

posted by Nancy Yeager
edited by Nancy Yeager
I guess we have to be cautious about equating the wives of Morville and Peverel. If you look at the SGM thread that you cite, Richardson never really went beyond citing Green, but I think that is not enough. Then he and Farmerie got in one of their discussions about name forms.! :) In fact there is no reason to think the name Lancaster was reserved for any family, let alone the leading members of any family. For example there was a Warin de Lancaster who seems to have been a respectable member of William fitz Gilbert's family. It is a difficult period to be certain about many things.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
Sons, Wm. b. 1142 & Malcolm b. 1146 ---MOTHER BORN 1140  !!! PROBLEM  !!!
LANCASTER AVICE OF Wife of Richard de Morville, daughter of William I of Lancaster and Gundreda de Warenne

"A Medieval Chronicle of Scotland - The Chronicle of Melrose." Translated by Joseph Stevenson, first published 1850's - Facsimile reprint 1991 ISBN 0947992 60 X

1191. On the kalends of January [1 January] died Avicia the wife of Richard de Mereville, the constable of king William.

posted by [Living O'Brien]
She could not have been the mother of the last 3 children listed, if her DOB is correct, and her mother was 31 at her birth.
posted by Steve Selbrede
Andrew, I've corrected her mother. I'm removing her from being wife of William de Peverel.
According to some theories, this is the same as Lancaster-870. There is dispute and uncertainty about the parents.
posted by Andrew Lancaster
Andrew could you summarize the theory or point us towards any artefacts supporting it? Interesting. Roger the Poitevin and Almodis are... always interesting.

If she's born circa 1120 he's already given up on Poitou, his son/wife are ruling there -- for 10 or 15 years now -- and he's back in England? Having earlier been relieved of his holdings in England after the impossible siege at Argentan a generation earlier.

Is she a natural child? Did he go back to Lancashire and father her there; or bring her from La Marche? Could she be a decade older than we say here?

posted by Isaac Taylor
edited by Isaac Taylor
Apparently the wrong Warrene has been made mother. See father's article. (On the other hand maybe her mother should be left as unknown.)
posted by Andrew Lancaster
The one who married Morville is possibly instead a daughter of William the second (who we currently show as her brother) See http://www.archive.org/stream/lancashireinque01farrgoog#page/n34/mode/2up
posted by Andrew Lancaster

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