Tangwystl ferch Owain (abt. 1240)

Born about 1240 in Deheubarth, Wales

Descendants

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Biography

Tangwystl was the daughter of Owain Fflam of Deheubarth, Wales and her son was Dafydd Goch,^[1][2] whose father was her husband, Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Llewelyn ap Iorwerth of Penmachno in Nant Conwy.^[2]

Research Notes

Not a Mistress: She was not the mistress of Dafydd ap Gruffudd, Prince of North Wales. Dafydd Goch was not his son, although Douglas Richardson says he was.^[3]

Estimated Birth Date: "about 1240", based on the estimated birth year of 1260/65 for her son Dafydd Goch.^[2] It is likely that she was born later, as first marriages/first child for Welsh women of this period was when they were about 15.^[4]

Mother: While her father is known to be Owain Fflam,^[2] Owain's spouse is not known.^[5]

Detached Profiles: As stated above, her father was Owain Fflam. The profiles for Ieuan ap Madog and Ellen ferch Maelgwn were detached as her parents.

DBE Warning: The wikidata warnings received 5 July 2023 suggesting that she was the "possible mother" of two of Dafydd Goch's sons have been marked false. One was for her father - Wikidata: Item Q110636399 - leading to his Genealogics entry, which did not provide any additional information except for the Bartrum citation, specifying the Gruffudd ap Cynan 5 chart.^{[6] [7]}

Bartrum: Note that the "Gruffudd ap Cynan" charts are for Prince Dafydd.^[7][5] However, "Gruffudd ap Cynan 5" shows Dafydd Goch's family (including this Tangwystl as his mother, albeit as a mistress of Prince Dafydd).^[7]

Dafydd Goch's "Real Ancestry"

From Darrell Wolcott's article on Tangwystl's son, "Dafydd Goch ap Dafydd - His Real Ancestry"^[2]

"Dafydd Goch ap Dafydd ap Gruffudd ap Llewelyn ap Iorwerth" ... lived at Penmachno in Nant Conwy. Marriages indicated for him, and for his son Gruffudd, pointed to a birthdate near 1260/65.[2] [The article discusses how researchers in the early 16th century mistakenly extended the ancestry of Dafydd Goch to "Iorwerth ap Owain Gwynedd"]

The mother they found cited for this Dafydd Goch was Tangwystl ferch Owain Fflam of Deheubarth, a man not further known then or now. Since this Dafydd Goch was further cited as father to Gruffudd and great-grandfather to Hywel Coetmor, this must have been (they reasoned) a bastard child of Prince Dafydd who had survived the 1282/83 "extinction" of his family for reasons of his illegitimacy. In fact, none of the early manuscripts call Dafydd Goch illegitimate nor refer to Tangwystl as the mistress of his father.

[2] Pen. 127, 17 cites 2 wives for Dafydd Goch: Angharad ferch Tudor ap Madog ap Iarddur ap Cynddelw born c. 1275, and Angharad ferch Heilyn ap Sir Tudor ap Ednyfed Fychan born c. 1265. These point to a birthdate near 1260 for Dafydd Goch. Pen. 177, 104 cites one wife of Gruffudd ap Dafydd Goch as Angharad ferch Hywel y pedolau, a lady born c. 1290. Again, this suggests Dafydd Goch was born c. 1260

Sources

1. ↑ Although sources differ on spelling, they agree that Tangwystl ferch Owain Fflam was the mother of Dafydd Goch.
2. ↑ ^{2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4} Darrell Wolcott, "Dafydd Goch ap Dafydd - His Real Ancestry," posted by Center for the Study of Ancient Wales, accessed 5 July 2023.
3. ↑ Douglas Richardson's Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols., ed. Kimball G. Everingham (Salt Lake City, Utah: the author, 2013), volume II, page 564: "David ap Gruffudd, Knt., Prince of North Wales... By his mistress, Tangwystl, daughter of Owain Fflam, of Deheubarth, he also had an illegitimate son, Dafydd Goch."
4. ↑ Darrell Wolcott, "Generational Gaps and the Welsh Laws" (accessed 5 July 2023).
5. ↑ ^{5.0 5.1} Tangwystl ferch Owain Flamm, Rootsweb entry from the database (link removed 20 June 2023 since Ancestry has deleted the database) for Celtic Royal Genealogy, the Turner-Thomas site, citing Bartrum's chart for Gruffudd ap Cynan.
6. ↑ Genealogics: Owain Fflam of Deheubarth (accessed 5 July 2023), citing
   • Carl Boyer, 3rd, Medieval Welsh Ancestors of Certain Americans, Santa Clarita, 2004.
   • Dr. Peter Clement Bartrum, Welsh Genealogies 300-1400 8 vols and 1400-1500, 18 vols: Gruffudd ap Cynan 5.
7. ↑ ^{7.0 7.1 7.2} Bartrum: Gruffudd ap Cynan 5 (accessed 5 July 2023).

• The Bartrum Project, digitization of "Welsh Genealogies AD 300- 1500" by Peter C. Bartrum (mirrored from the defunct Cadair site by Geni: Bartrum Genealogical Project - free login required to access the charts). See additional information about Cadair in G2G.

See also:

• Wikipedia: Dafydd Goch
• from Dafydd ap Gruffudd's profile (as of 4 July 2023):
  • Dafydd had a mistress, Tangwystl ferch Owain "Fflam", with whom he had at least one child: Dafydd "Gôch" ap Dafydd, lord of Penmachno; m1. Angharad [2nd] ferch Heilin; m2. Angharad ferch Tudur
• A Rootsweb tree (content gone as of 5 July 2023), but source citations were for Prince Dafydd's wife Elizabeth Ferrers.
• Wikipedia: Dafydd ap Gruffydd:
  • "On 22 June, Dafydd and his younger son Owain ap Dafydd were captured at Nanhysglain, a secret hiding place in a bog by Bera Mountain to the south of Abergwyngregyn. Dafydd, seriously wounded (graviter vulneratus) in the struggle, was brought to King Edward's camp at Rhuddlan that same night (Cotton Vesp. B xi, f30). Dafydd was taken from here to Chester and then on to Shrewsbury. Dafydd's wife Elizabeth de Ferrers, their daughter Gwladys, infant niece Gwenllian ferch Llywelyn, and Dafydd's six illegitimate daughters were also taken prisoner at the same time. Whether they were with Dafydd and Owain at Bera is not recorded, but it is likely."
• St Tudclud's Church, Penmachno, notes there is a "high-status stone, which may be the marker for Iorwerth, father of Llewelyn Fawr, the first Prince of Wales. A medieval eulogy states that Iorwerth was buried in Llandudclyd, the village’s name before it became Pennantmachno, and later Penmachno." Wolcott's article suggests the ancestry of David Goch back to Iorwerth of Penmachno, who is not the same person as Iorwerth, father of Llywelyn Fawr, but was the son of Nefydd Hardd, Lord of Nant Conwy, and "one of the 15 Founders of Noble Tribes of Gwynedd." The church's entry also says "William Morgan (1553-1604) worshipped here in his youth." and in searching Bartrum, I found a chart (Nefydd Hardd 1(A)) that shows a descendant of Nefydd Hardd as William Morgan b c1545.
• Bartrum chart for Nefydd Hardd (shows a David Goch, son of Tangwstl,* but nothing else matches with what Wolcott relates)
  • *Tangwstl ferch Madog, m Tudur ap Iorwerth (see Tudur's entry in Marlyn Lewis's database)
• Tangwystl ferch Owain Fflam in Marlyn Lewis's database, citing Richardson: Tangwystl ferch Owain Fflam (daughter of Owain), was the mistress of Dafydd ap Gruffudd, Prince of North Wales, and mother of their illegitimate son Dafydd Goch.
• Lewis, Marlyn. "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors" (free database online). Useful for leads; see cautions about use on the Magna Carta Project Reliable Sources page. The Magna Carta Project - and most pre-1700 projects - consider this to be an unreliable source.