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Thomas St Leger (abt. 1355 - 1408)

Born about [uncertain] in Kent, England
Died at about age 53 in Kent, England
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The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.

Biography

As summarized by the 18th century antiquarian Hasted:[1]

  • He resided at Otterden, where he kept his shrievalty anno 20 Richard II. and dying in the 10th year of Henry IV. was buried under a tomb erected for him in this church, near the high altar. His arms being, Fretty, on a chief, two mullets, impaling semee of sleurs de lis, were on his tomb; which last are said in the Aucher pedigree, to be those of Juliana Potyn his wife; but it must be here remarked, the similarity of this coat to that of Peysorer, which was, Six sleurs delis, whose daughter and heir Philipott says she was. He left one daughter and heir Joane, and his widow Juliana, surviving, who died possessed of this manor in the 5th year of Henry V. on which, Joan their daughter, then the wife of Henry Aucher, esq. of Losenham, in Newenden, entitled her husband to the possession of it.

4 Feb 1380: Grant by Thomas de Sancto Leodegario, and Juliana his wife, to Robert Tyrwhyt, of the county of York, of lands, etc, in Beverley. Witnesses:—Sir Robert de Gatton, and others (named). Saturday next the Purification, 3 Richard II. Yorkshire.[2]

In 1396 he was sheriff of Kent.

He was buried at the High Altar, Otterden, Kent, England. His monumental brass was discovered in 1894 beneath the flooring of some pews in Otterden church. The church had been completely rebuilt in 1753-4 and the brass was never seen afterwards until discovered in 1894.[3]

Research Notes

His parents are uncertain. Some sources state that his parents were Ralph (Leger) St Leger (abt.1340-) and Beatrice (Haighton) St Leger (-aft.1411), while others says they were Thomas St Leger and Lora Peyforer.

This Otterden branch of the St Leger family (which might be only one generation, but is probably two) probably descends from the family who held Ulcombe, which is also in Kent. However, no one seems to have found any real evidence for the connection. According to Wykeham-Martin, the first Thomas is the son of Bartholomew St Leger. He therefore shows two generations of Thomas St Leger in Otterden. As a primary record for the first one he cites a fine of 1343, which is indeed much earlier than 1408. The wife of this Thomas was Lora Peyforer, for whom he also cites a fine of 1348/9.[4]

The Peyforer family held Otterden previous to Thomas St Leger, and their arms appear on the grave monument of Thomas who died in 1408. The 17th century herald Thomas Philipot reported this marriage, but it might have been his interpretation of that evidence.[5]

However, Thomas who died in 1408 is known to have been married to Juliana Potyn, who had two previous husbands and could not have married him until after 1376. Hasted therefore proposed that there must have been a Peyforer marriage in a generation for which no evidence seems to survive.[1]

Alternative scenarios which have been published:

  • The 18th century antiquarian of Kent Edward Halsted, there was only one Thomas St. Leger of Otterden in Kent, and he was "second son of Ralph St. Leger, of Ulcomb, knight of the shire anno 51 Edward III" [1377], the grandson of Bartholomew. That would mean that this profile is the same person as St_Leger-144. He cited a manuscript pedigree of Aucher and St. Leger, but gave no details of where this manuscript could be found.[1]
      • Problem. This Thomas son of Ralf of Ulcombe appears to have survived beyond 1408.[6] This Thomas was apparently still alive in 1420.[7]
  • The 19th century Kent pedigree given by William Berry also has only one Thomas of Otterden, the one married to Juliana Potyn, but he makes him a son of Arnold de St Leger, a different grandson of Bartholomew.[8]
      • Problem. This Thomas son of Arnold of Ulcombe also appears to have survived beyond 1408.[9][10]
  • Paul A. Fox also sticks to one generation, but places him one generation earlier in the Ulcombe pedigree, making him the son of Bartholomew's son Ralph, and therefore a brother to Ralph and Arnold. [11]
      • Problem: no son is named Thomas appears in the will of this elder Ralph's widow Joan (see their profiles).

Sources

  1. 1.0 1.1 1.2 Edward Hasted, 'Parishes: Otterden', in The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent: Volume 5 (Canterbury, 1798), pp. 533-549. British History Online http://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol5/pp533-549 [accessed 7 December 2023].
  2. National Archives, Kew, C 146/2389
  3. W.A. Scott Robertson, "Discovery of an unrecorded monumental brass", The Reliquary and Illustrated Archaeologist, Volume 8, 1894, pp. 233-234 [1]
  4. Charles Wykeham-Martin, The History and Description of Leeds Castle, Kent p.156.
  5. Thomas Philipot, Villare Cantianum Surveyed. [2]
  6. In legal cases of 1413 Julia the widow of Thomas of Otterden is active in the same period as the son of Ralph who was still concerned with Ulcombe https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/609:_K-Z
  7. https://waalt.uh.edu/index.php/CP40/636
  8. William Berry, County genealogies : pedigrees of the families of the county of Kent (scan available on Ancestry.com), p.287.
  9. Calendar of Inquisitions p.37
  10. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/cal-close-rolls/hen6/vol1/pp76-78
  11. Paul A. Fox, Great Cloister: A Lost Canterbury Tale: A History of the Canterbury Cloister, Constructed 1408-14, with Some Account of the Donors and their Coats of Arms, p.596.
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Comments on Thomas St Leger: 8


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Lancaster-1279
Andrew Lancaster
I am doubting we can prove the parentage of this person, but it might be administratively easier to connect him to St Leger-144. (Perhaps the evidence cited by Wykeham-Martin can eventually help.)

posted by Andrew Lancaster

Thanks, Andrew. I have made the connection.
Lancaster-1279
Andrew Lancaster
Thanks! I will make a new profile for the son of Ralph who lived beyond 1408.

posted by Andrew Lancaster

Leger-616 and St Leger-143 appear to represent the same person because: same name, spouse, death date. Are these duplicates or is one attached to the wrong wife? If duplicates, which set of parents are correct?
My apologies for the extensive comments. Just when I think I can stop a piece of information presented itself which may change your mind about the direction of the merge I proposed although the Rev. Robertson source provides the pedigree of Thomas St. Leger, son of Thomas St. Leger and wife Lora (Peyforer) St. Leger by citing Thomas' (Jun.) Otterden inheritance from his mother's dowry lands. [Robertson, 234]

[Hasted, Edward "The History and Topographical Survey of the County of Kent" 2nd Ed., Vol. 6, Canterbury, 1798. https://www.british-history.ac.uk/survey-kent/vol6/pp143-150] Hasted says the manor of East Hall was conveyed to Thomas St. Leger, a 2nd son of Sir Ralph St. Leger of Ulcomb who resided at Otterden. Thomas left a dau. Joane who was entitled to the possession. Hasted says daughter Joan m. Henry Aucher, esq., of Newenden. She m. 2nd Robert Capys.

Question about the b. yr. estimate on this profile: Would he have been appointed sheriff of Kent County at the age of 19 yrs?

posted on Leger-616 (merged) by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
edited by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear

St_Leger-143 (this profile) probably needs to have Thomas St Leger (abt 1377-1408) aka Leger-616 merged into it after that latter profile is detached from its parents. Both profiles have duplicate wives with their own needed merge.

If the Thomas St. Legers are duplicates Leger-616 also has 3 children attached: Rev. Robertson [p.234] reports that Thomas and Juliana (the widow Cobeham) St. Leger had two daughters from their marriage: Joan St. Leger, b. abt 1385 and Alianora St. Leger. There is also a third WikiTree profile daughter attached to Leger-616 which, at face value, may be a duplicate sister. The three daughters attached to Leger-616: Joan (Leger) Cappes (abt. 1385 - abt. 1440) aka Leger-617 Eleanor (Leger) Fogge (abt. 1387) aka Leger-618 Juliana (Leger) St Leger (abt. 1389) aka Leger-619 (basically an empty profile)

About the wife: Juliana (Poteyn, Lapyn, Cobeham) St. Leger was a wealthy widow who had married 1st James Lapyn of East Hall in Murston, a residence she and her 3rd husband would live at. Her 2nd marriage was to John de Cobeham. She had two sons, one from each prior marriage. [Robertson, 234] While St. Leger (II) resided at Murston he gave patronage to the benefice of Otterden presenting the rector with a living. [Robertson, p.234] In 1393 he again exercised right of patronage. [Robertson, 234] When he acted as sheriff for Kent County (1396-97) he resided at his Manor House in Otterden "and kept his shrievalty there". [Robertson, 234] Additional genealogical information about the family after St. Leger's death is also presented by the Rev. Robertson.

posted by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
edited by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear

Leger-616 probably needs to merge into Thomas St Leger (abt 1350-1408) of Otterden, Kent, England

Added information: If this profile is a duplicate to Thomas St. Leger, II (abt 1350-1408) Rev. Robertson [p.234] reports that Thomas and Juliana (Poteyn) St. Leger had two daughters from their marriage: Joan St. Leger, b. abt 1385 and Alianora St. Leger.

Juliana (Poteyn, Lapyn, Cobeham) St. Leger was a wealthy widow who had married 1st James Lapyn of East Hall in Murston. Her 2nd marriage was to John de Cobeham. She had two sons, one from each prior marriage. [Robertson, 234] While St. Leger (II) resided at Murston he gave patronage to the benefice of Otterden presenting the rector with a living. [Robertson, p.234] In 1393 he again exercised right of patronage. [Robertson, 234] When he acted as sheriff for Kent County (1396-97) he resided at his Manor House in Otterden "and kept his shrievalty there". [Robertson, 234] Additional genealogical information about the family after St. Leger's death is also presented by the Rev. Robertson.

posted on Leger-616 (merged) by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
edited by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear

As explained by the Rev. Canon W. A. Robertson of Otterden, church repairs to the interior led to the discovery of an heretofore unknown monumental brass (7 1/2 feet long) memorializing Thomas St . Ledger who died 22 April 1408 and was buried at Otterden, Kent. In my opinion the hand drawn illustration is quite good. The brass itself was in excellent condition when discovered (excepting for a few missing pieces). As Robertson explains Hasted's History of Kent assumed that after the church was rebuilt in the mid 1750's no part of Thomas St Ledger's tomb remained. Robertson continues: Thomas St. Ledger (who d. 22 Apr 1408) was Lord of the manor of Otterden which he inherited from his mother Lora nee' Peyfor who brought it in marriage to his father Thomas St. Ledger.

"The Reliquary and Illustrated Archeologists: A Quarterly Journal and Review" (Oct 1894) Vol. VIII ( New Series) p.232 Hand drawn illustration, plate VIII. p.233 "Discovery of an Unrecorded Monumental Brass" by Rev. Canon W. A. Scott Robertson, Rector of Otterden, Kent. https://books.google.com/books?id=y6E1AAAAMAAJ&newbks=1&newbks_redir=0&printsec=frontcover&pg=PA219&dq=%22robert+hall%22+matlock&hl=en&source=gb_mobile_entity#v=onepage&q=Flint&f=false

Edited: Bolded lines for emphasis. Note the different parents between the WikkiTree profile and author Rev. Canon Robertson.

posted on Leger-616 (merged) by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear
edited by Leigh Anne (Johnson) Dear



War of 1812 Connection Checkers: Thomas is 18 degrees from Francis Key, 18 degrees from Caleb Bentley, 17 degrees from Thomas Brisbane VIth of Brisbane, 15 degrees from Francis Dade, 16 degrees from William Harrison, 17 degrees from Andrew Jackson, 16 degrees from Dolley Madison, 17 degrees from Oliver Hazard Perry, 19 degrees from Mary Pickersgill, 19 degrees from Laura Secord, 18 degrees from John Stricker and 17 degrees from Arthur Wakefield

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