Question of the Week: Do you have Jewish roots? [closed]

Question

Do you have any Jewish ancestors? Answer below.

You might consider joining the Jewish Roots project to help identify and honor your Jewish ancestors.

We also have a Holocaust Project that is working to memorialize and remember victims of the Holocaust. These ancestors are difficult to research and document. If you have information that will help this project, please let them know!

Comments

Jewish roots? Ashkenazi showed up in my DNA which was not a surprise in one specific line in my family.

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So interesting, encouraging, and also so complicated for those of us who have that one family line that we didn't know everything about. Most of the present members of this project haven't (as before the end of 2017) had a DNA test yet. Choosing one should not be hard. But please ask if that is what's stopping you. The World you'll find out about is pretty exciting to find. And some of us have a very personal need to know.

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My Great Grandmother was Jewish  name of Oppenheimer

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Thanks so much, Dan. I hope she lived in the US, not Europe.

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Dan, As you likely know, a "Jewish-sounding" surname is no indication of being Jewish. Many Jews converted to provide an extra layer of privacy/surety/safety. Some kept their surnames others did not or altered them to indicate "not Jewish." It's the DNA testing that you'll want to do to assure yourself of Jewish roots.

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the surname FREED is often associated with the jewish community but I have yet to connect to any jewish FREED families. I have traced mine in Kent England but where they came from before that I have yet to find

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GLORIA, I haven't seen your profile, but consider, if you haven't, taking an auDNA test with ftdna.com. They have a one fee situation (good for us who opted for the auDNA test) and their number of matches keeps changing, allowing a test taker to keep checking for, for instance, those who lead to and from the Freed families,without another charge. (I for one have thousands of matches now.)

To expand your # of matches, you can download your ftdna results to other websites, sometimes without a charge.

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Everyone with British and/or Irish ancestry has Jewish Roots.   There isn't the slightest doubt for DNA proves it.   The 18th Dynasty Mummies who were mostly Kings David -(in Egyptian Dhwt or Twt as in Tut) and Solomon (in Egyptian Ymn Htp which in Hebrew was Salim Amen) - have been found to have Ydna group R1b1a2 and this is as high as 90% of all males in England alone, but as high as 98% in Connaught.    There are two Irish legends which name in one, the Duat and the god/goddess Tatanen, and in the other the exact Egyptian names for Abram, Abel and Cain, the latter two being prefixed by the IU (origin of the name Jew) God Name which was an abbreviation for Yah Weh. (Egyptian plural for the Moon God Iah, Yah, Lah or Ea).     All of this supports the third legend that a Princess Scota (Goddess name Skhety) came with a band of followers to Ireland after Akhenaten/Moses was thrown out of Egypt by the Amen/Hebrew ruling establishment.    Then there are the Egyptian remains in Britain and Ireland - skeletal, faience jewellery, Egyptian ships in the Humber.   There is no doubt, though not to the Ashkenazi but to the original Hebrew (Heprew meaning Creations in Egyptian) Kings David and Solomon.

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Unbelievable my husbands DNA came back as him being 51%european Jew his father was of Irish decent his mother Dutch .Names on his mothers side are Davis,Green and Keesing on his fathers McCartan .We have since found his grandmothers marrage certificate which is written in Hebrew .Until his DNA result we had no idea of his Jewish roots and actually the real question is why ?

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My Grandfather was told that one of his Grandmothers was Jewish in origin, but unfortunately we can't find anything to back it up.

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I thought we may have being my paternal side Posen,Germany/Poznan Poland region, but when I had my DNA done I was 43% & my paternal lines as I knew them wasn't showing up.  So I had my sister do her DNA, shocked to find we are half sisters, so now all my trees is showing her paternal side.  After a year of wondering who I am, I've gained six half brothers !

I  wished they allow both fathers : )  

In 1942 my DNA father changed his name entering WWII military, being he was going to fight in the European Theatre from Ginsberg to Walker also changed rest of 1st & middle, which even in censuses I've found this happening. In AncestryDNA our 3rd cousins? are Ginsberg, but their ancestors took wives surname.  My grandfather served in British Army WWI, wondering if his 1st name Robert what first name really is, being his father inlaw was Rob. but widow used Reubin/Rubin as 1st name, I don't know if were legally married, but Robert was married again.  1st wife went by her maiden name in California. They were from Vilna, Lithuania to Connecticut. My brother told me that Robert's Social Security has father down as Loic ( little Lo, Louis & ?).

Fathers maternal side Platsky has been tricky on spellings-looks like they fell off the grid- Rob. last census 1910 haven't found death nor cemetery nor his wife Rose/Rosa Unknown maiden name after 1943-address books ancestry, grand uncle left info his father 1st name Reuben was HaLevi found in jewishgen. They also from Vila,Lithuania, NY to Connecticut.  

We have a second cousin 1 or 2 removed?, who doesn't know her grandparent, she was born in England & came here USA in the early 1950's , I figured it's her mothers side from Lodz Hersch/le/covitch & looks there maybe more then one way connect? One to connect to a tree must be able to leave blank 1st & surnames of unknowns, else how can they see & help grow tree?

Without having two fathers allowed would mean all the relatives of my sister who've connected to tree, just seems to be so wrong to have to do this.

Even being 43% Ashkinaszi one is over whelmed with cousins galore, my brother shows Iberian Peninsula in trace, I don't & he thought it was on his mothers side.  I think our father also has due to GEDmatch, I found Spanish & Italian Sephardic in my DNA there.

There are so many things yet to learn, feel like a newbie & yet started genealogy in grade school. Life throws surprises (DNA), roadblocks (record not online or not have/gone), to brick walls, female unknown maiden, or unknown names so connect & add cousins-we can learn from others & aid. And only hope makers add features to grow with our needs.  My sister has zero Ashkinaszi ; )

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There was a large Jewish community in Spain under the Moors, several of whom were very prominent, including Maimonides. The Jews were expelled from Spain in 1492 or forced to convert. Many went to other parts of Europe or to other areas. After the expulsion, the Horowitz/Horwitz family moved to Horovice in Bohemia, which is the source of their name. This large family of rabbis spread throughout Ashkenazic Europe. See, for example, the story of the Horowitz family on wikipedia.org.

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I think I have Jewish grandparents but can't prove it.

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I did an ancestry one before christmas but they couldnt find anything so sent me another kit. I refrained from doing another one until after christmas in the hope that it doesnt get lost in the post. So I still havent done it yet but will do soon

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My maternal ancestors are from Austria, Hungary, Poland and Russia. I am in touch with many of my Mildener descendants, and a number of my Rabbach descendants.

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My SO brought up an interesting point after he got his Ancestry DNA results back a month after I did...his last name is Smith - he's Scots/Irish for sure, and within days had over 50 people in his DNA circles. I am 48% Ashkenazi Jew, and have only 3 people in my DNA circles - do you think Jews are more hesitant to participate in DNA testing due to our history of persecution?

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Cathy, after reading your notes today, I think you would be a significant member of Jewish Roots Project if you will join. You've done a great deal of research and can pose, therefore, some good questions and assert some ways of dealing with the puzzles that come up to the JRP's new and non-DNA tested members.

Your notes show how difficult and sophisticated any kind of genealogical research can become proverbially "by accident." So we all stand to benefit by your "just do it" attitude and your persistence.  --Thanks so much!

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Gloria, I suggest you request your fee returned. The more informative site from the get-go is ftdna.com, which is not a genealogical site but specializes in testing for DNA. I use it and Wikitree with a backup of familysearch.com exclusively. I never got "my monies worth" from anc.com's DNA test either.

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Not sure if they do a refund as they sent me another kit, but I have not activated it yet

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I recently sprang for a genetic test and discovered my DNA is 99%, Ashkenazi. I was not surprised to be Ashkenazi; my family has been Jewish on both my parents' sides for as far back as I could trace it (paternal great-grandparent).

I have occasionally tried to trace my family back farther, with no success and sadly my family resources are no longer with us. I wish I had been interested in this earlier. Being so Jewish maybe my roots go back to Abraham!

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Abram was the Pharaoh Sheshi of the 15th Dynasty.   His throne name was written as Ma'ibre which is an honorific transposition of the name IBRAM.  He has been identified through name and throne name of his father which match both the Bible and the Koran - refer Ralph Ellis, "Jesus Last of the Pharaohs" pages 41 to 45.   He has also been listed as Bnon, Baion and Bnon so could well be the Brian of the Irish Legend which also names Horus, Cain and Abel in a blood feud.   From other research: "Hundreds of physical evidence of his existents have been found: 394 scarab seals and 2 seal impressions found in a wide area in the Middle East.   He is noted in Manetho's list as the second king of dynasty 15 and for a reign of 44 years, a duration that has been rejected by modern scholars."

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I am so very sorry that someone misread it or misinterpreted it. I have Jewish roots, and established the project here, so I knew after years of trying to find any records left for my Unknown anywhere digitally that a DNA TEST was the only answer. To clarify:

To choose between three basic kinds isn't difficult: the tests aren't difficult and sometimes we find lower costs, especially at a site that does only DNA testing.

Autosomal: tests two genders, if somewhat incompletely.

mtDNA: tests all the mothers and single women among one's ancestors and descendants

Y-DNA: tests all the fathers and single men among one's ancestors and descendants

 

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I appreciate your opinion and dont think I misunderstood what you say, anyway it spurred me onto doing the test so will post it back today and hopefully be successful this time. A lot of people seemed to be using the same one that I chose so I thought I would try it as it was recommended by some

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To everyone who has responded to this posting:

If you have not yet joined the Jewish Roots Project, and would like to, we would love to have you!  Reply with a “yes, I want to join” and I’ll make sure you get a badge.  Meanwhile, visit our Jewish Roots Project Page, check out the extensive Resources List, and add your name to the members list toward the bottom.

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Robert --

Could you also post the link to your joining post?

So happy you're getting more members from this. :-)

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Bravo, Bob! and THANKS for yr note DIRECTLY ABOVE. We'll need to remind people to join!! Our resources page is a very important part of Jewish roots research! 

I just found a note from a documentary Jewish film I saw yesterday, stating its source: JEWISHFILM.org (don't capitalize it.) The one Id's seen was about Ruth Gruber, a photo-journalist and journalist during the 1940s and on. An amazing woman in a time when being a major figure was "not for girls." 

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Thanks, Julie, it’s your Question of the Week that stirred up interest. Not sure what you mean by ‘post the link to your joining post!

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Also not sure why that last message was from ‘anonymous’, since it ws me!

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Several of the responders seem to be quite surprised by their Jewish roots. I encourage them to go to https://www.jewishgen.org/JewishGen/FirstTimer.html

For those of us who are more experienced, I believe we of Wikitree really need to fix (not replace) several of the parameters. One suggestion in the responses was that there needs to be a place for patronymics. Almost all Jews before 1820 (as well as lots of others, especially Icelanders even today, and Russians Christians) used patronymics and had no last names. How do we with place these people on Wikitree, such as my grandson's Nigerian ancestors (including the 19th century kings!), who did not even have patronymics? Or Spanish speakers who use the father's surname second and the mother's surname last? The Wikitree REQUIREMENT known as "Last Name At Birth" is completely inconsistent with the goal of having a worldwide database. (I would not call it racist, but I know lots of people would. Better terms might be "ethnocentric bias".)

I regret that I do not have any easy answers. But these are issues that need to be addressed by Wikitree, if it is to fulfill its mission.

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This question stimulated many more responses from Jewish members--and YES, we want you to join JEWISH ROOTS PROJECT so we can have discussions that are centered around the details of your roots!!!!!

Thank you Julie Rickets!!!!!

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I'm so happy to hear that, Roberta! You're welcome. :-)

And Robert ... by "joining post," I meant the G2G post that the Jewish Roots project uses to invite people to join the project.

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Hi, Ken --

There are some limitations about the number of name fields we have available to work with. We are aware that it's not ideal, but changing and/or adding new fields requires development time and resources that aren't easy to come by.

A number of our projects have had to work within those limitations, and they've develop naming standards specific to their projects. This page might be helpful for you: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:Name_Field_Guidelines

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Ashkenazi Jewish, European Jewish, Levant which may or may not be Jewish

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Thanks, Julie. I know that LNAB is the essential key field. I will look further.

If one is able to research far enough back in time, no one had a surname. Patronymic names can be very unsatisfactory, especially since the same person might have his father's name in one document and his grandfather's in another. And then there is the question about women of whom we do not know their parents, and especially for whom the mother's names are lost completely. Not easy.

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You're absolutely right, Ken!! It's not easy at all!!

The Sweden Project has done extensive work with patronymics. I don't know how alike or different their naming issues are to what you're dealing with, but I'm sure the project leaders would be happy to help you if they can. Here's the project page: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Sweden

Good luck!

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Julie, hi, and as a long timer in our work here, your comments are greatly respected.

In this continuing matter of patronymics and LNAB when no name exists, I wholly agree with KEN ELSTEIN, on Jan. 13 above: ". . .these are issues that need to be addressed by Wikitree, if it is to fulfill its mission."  To omit whole, linked generations and to say essentially, "we can't figure out how to do that" and then to let the matter go is, it seems, to let the One-World idea go. 

The normal response, "No way to do that Now" may be "correct," but it's not useful. Our leaders must turn to linguistic and computer technicians, especially those young new ones not doing genealogy now --like the young Japanese Phd's who discovered the invisible rooms in the tomb of KHUFU near Cairo, Egypt. Their minds were completely affixed on the newest methods for research--and of course the old-school archaeologists resisted their results until they couldn't any more. Their work was a breakthrough, and this DIFFICULT instance of ours needs one.  

--Our problem becomes then, to whom would we turn who have those brilliant, young brains who have some "extra" time to work on it? WHERE are they, and WHAT could be the right first research question that all good scientists use to start a project? WHO will approach them and WHO will follow through with them? 

Until this string of events is energized by human initiative, our trees will stop producing desired long-term results and become archaic before their time. Our primary reason for being will die in a natural erosion. 

Will all of us with knowledge bases that lead us to find these new minds SPEAK UP, ASK AROUND among these "outsiders," and start us more powerfully toward these breakthroughs. 

(My apologies here to those who don't like CHANGE.)

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In my long experience - I'll be 85 in June- it is the older ones who are able to question and search for the truth.   We have more time for starters and I didn't get to the real truth in so many questionable matters until I had the time for example to learn to read Ancient Egyptian and study the brilliance of Prince Francis Tudor, son of Elizabeth I.   You have used the faked name 'Khufu'.   Both the Abydos Kings List and the earlier 5th Dynasty Giza Writing Board spell the word with the God Name RA and not the translation foisted on us beginning with 'KH'.  The Placenta hieroglyph and the Ra hieroglyphs are very different and they were not interchangeable as is the usual deceiving excuse.   So it spells Ra F W which could have been pronounced F RA W - something like 'Pharaoh' as this could be a case of honorific transposition with the glyphs.    The deceit goes back to the corrupt politician Vyse who bribed his way into Parliament and then went to Egypt in 1837 and planted the Fake 'Khufu' cartouche in the Great Pyramid upper chamber.  We have now found the proof of this deceit in Vyse's private journal wherein he actually wrote his instructions for Raven and Hill to paint the fake cartouche on any low plain trussing.  The journal is now in the Library of Buckinghamshire Studies in Aylesbury, Bucks.    This is only one of thousands of accepted deceipts I have found through heavy research - though the Vyse forgery is given in a book by Scott Creighton, 'The Great Pyramid Hoax' and this has much more evidence of lies we have been fed.

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Malcolm, thanks for your very interesting comment. The TV program was PBS's Secrets of the Dead, and it was amazing.  I do not remember one utterance of the name RA, which I am very familiar with. So, the name and the beaten-up small sculpture of this person-god are the only ID features I remember. I'm 78, so I could be mistaken. But I used that information because it fascinated me and because it seemed angularly relevant to our problem of naming within our group. 

I make no claim to be an archaeology student, but my mother's interest prompted mine in arcane directions, and she was an amazing person, doing what some mothers do who aren't interested in scullery skills. 

Thank you again!

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There is one very important point that we should all learn no matter what culture we come from.   

Jerusalem has always been where the people of Israel lived and not just where it is recognized today.

It is a spiritual name IAH (the Moon God of the Fertile Crescent, aka Yah, Lah and Ea) + RE (The Sun God whence Ancients believed all energy and life came from) + KA (the Holy Spirit).

During the 3rd Dynasty of Egypt and especially during the reign of DJOSER who was 'Joshua the Bethshemite' of 1 Samuel 6:18, Israel was Lower Egypt and the Sacred Capital was Bethshemesh which we know from Jeremiah was also known by the Greek name of Heliopolis.  To the Israel Egyptians it was IWNW  - and this translates as 'Of the IU's'.      IU was an abbreviation written in hieroglyphs as two Water Reeds, i.e. YY.   Repetition of a letter or word in Egyptian made it plural and the plural letter was 'W', so YY was known as YW or IU which according to Gerald Massey (1907) was the origin of the name 'Jew'.   This is confirmed by Irish legends which use the IU prefix written as 'IU' in the names of Abel and Cain who were 14th/15th Dynasty Kings of Egypt.

     Later on in the 18th Dynasty during the reigns of the Kings David and Solomon of Egypt - Dhwt and Ymn Htp(Salim Amen or Salomon in Hebrew of that time) - Jerusalem was spiritually where Luxor and Karnak stand today.    This is evidenced by masses of strong proof which I can show to anyone interested in learning true facts.

     During the travels of Herodotus in the 5th century BCE, he left Egypt and made his way through Cadytis - believed to be Gaza and then to the north.    Herodotus was intensely drawn to learn about other religions and how they and their temples compared to his, the Hellenic Gods.   Had Jerusalem been where it is today he would most definitely have gone there and written about it - but there is not mention of it whatsoever.

     The New Jerusalem and Temple Dead Sea Scrolls could only describe the lay out of a city at Amarna - the new City of Akhenaten who was Moses and it is clear then that he wanted it to be the New Jerusalem to replace Luxor where the Hebrew priests of Amen held sway led by the Prophet/King Ahijah (1 Kings 11) aka Aye.

     So why are they fighting over Jerusalem today?   When you know the real history it just doesn't make sense.

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Thank you for your reply Roberta.  The real truth is so fascinating when unraveled.    But do be careful about TV documentaries.   I've just watched the first episode about the treasures of Tutankhamen and it is full of very misleading and wrongful information.    They can't even pronounce his name correctly even though I have pointed out the error to Chris Naughton in the past.   He keeps saying 'Ahmoon' for Amen, a word which has lasted the millennia and was spelled in Greek in Antiquity as 'AmEn'.   The worst of it is that TWT is DWD in Hebrew and it was DAVID in English.  They must know this but still try to hide the truth about the 18th Dynasty Hebrew Kings of Egypt - several Davids and 4 Solomon's.    Even the name 'Hebrew' appears in the names of many Egyptian Kings as 'Heprew'.    We also know from the Kebra Nagast, the Ethiopian Bible that Ymn Twt Ankh - Tutankhamen - was also called DAVID.     His throne name was Re (or RA) HEPREW Neb - God of All Creations.

Another deceit is that the Merneptah Stele has the first mention of Israel in any ancient carving.   it doesn't.   The main enemy of Egypt at that time was Assyria and the glyphs read YYSRYAR.   These are followed by a determinative glyph - a Throw stick which indicates Enemy.  Since Egypt still ruled the Canaan territory during and after the reign of Merneptah we can easily spot another lie.

     Another point to remember is that the 18th Dynasty Kings David and Solomon have had their ydna checked and it is R1b1a2 - the dominant ydna of all British Males.

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Roberta --

In response to your comments re: names ...

I don't think we have indicated that nothing can be done to accommodate the name situations that you encounter with the Jewish Roots projects, etc.

There are several projects on WikiTree that have had to deal with patronymics and lack of a last name. They've found ways to use the existing fields on profiles in different ways.

A couple of those projects:

• Sweden
• First Peoples (esp. Native Americans)

Since we are a free website with limited technical resources, restructuring our database to accommodate different name structures and alphabets for different countries and cultures is just not something we can do at this time. 

 

I suggest getting in touch with the leaders of the Sweden and Native American projects to see if they can help you come up with a way to address the naming struggles. 

 

You can also ask the community for help by starting a G2G post to discuss options. 

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Thanks, Julie, some of us will find your comments very useful.

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Well I thought I did but all I have are relatives with Jewish names, my early Missionary families managed to convert them to the new religions and then obviously bred the DNA out. We got the brains and not the ethnicity.

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No its the luck of the draw depending on who tested my husband has thousands from his mothers side that come up Jewish your family may be from an area that are not interested in family history yet.

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Thanks, Heather!!

 How would I start this search? What did your husband do? I 'll follow his trail or any person who thinks "I've got it!"  ( The "I" is the speaker.)

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He handed the problem over to me as the number of matches were so overwhelming he just put it in the too hard basket.

If you go to myname Heather Douglas and account and send me a private email I will try and help you.

Have a great day you deserve it.

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Thanks, Heather!!

 How would I start this search? What did your husband do? I 'll follow his trail or any other person who thinks "I've got it!"

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I recently wrote an article on the origin of the Jews and where the name IU came from.    It is to be published in Ancient Origins on the 25th May, so I understand.   As Gerald Massey wrote in his great work, 'Ancient Egypt - Light of the World', published 1907, the Jews are not one race but united through a common belief and that belief goes back tens of thousands of years and to every corner of this planet, including Oceania.   They all revered the same god that had very similar names, from Iah and Yah  (Weh is the plural in Egyptian thus 'Yah Weh' for the moon was seen by some to have multiple aspects from Crescent to Full, Iahu, Iao, IO (by the Maori who helped build the Pyramids and can still be seen in Egypt today as the dwarf god 'BES'.  Then there was the Sumerian EA and that name turns up in the Legend of HAR (Horus) at Edfu in Upper Egypt.  Har was IUchar in Irish legend, and familiarly known as HRY.   One aspect of the One God in Egypt as as a Potter, and so named PTAH.    There are also connections in Ancient Egypt with Australia as can be seen by the Two Dog Palette in the Ashmolean museum in Oxford - a Kangaroo playing a didgeridoo with a Joey in its pouch, plus boomerangs in other carvings.   And, now the strange Chest symbols found at Gobekli Tepi, 12, 000 years old match those on an Austrfalian Medicine Man.

My next article if accepted will be on the City of the Jews which was the capital of Israel when it was Egypt, IWNW - IW= IU=Jew.  N is the genitive case and W the plural thus 'Of the Jews' and this was called ON in the Bible as well as Heliopolis and Bethshemesh - refer 1 Samuel 6:18.   Joshua the Bethshemite could only be a King of Egypt - therefore 3rd Dynasty DJOSER.   (Joshua son of Nnu/Noah who with Aye, the prophet Ahija, can only have been Djoser HEPREW Setepenre aka Horemheb Mery Ymn ...Miriam)

I have also just finished work on another article on the Ark which was the Benben or capstone of Mount Sinai alias the Great Pyramid.  It had many names such as The Winged Disk, an emblem found all over Assyria and Egypt, and the Celestial Chamber of God.   The Egyptians also called it M'AKKA - hence its resting place today in Mecca.

One can learn the history of the Ashkenazi from Milorad Palic's book, The Dictionary of the Khazars.   But the interested student should also study everything on the Sephardic IU's of Egypt, and Spain.

Malcolm

Answer 1

Yes, and I'm hoping that WikiTree will add features in the future that will make it more capable of representing data relevant to ancestry needs of non-western civilizations.

The following features would greatly benefit the needs of Ashkenazi genealogists:

1. Support for dual first names
2. Support for entering and showing names in more than two languages while clearly identifing that as one and the same info. For example: I have ancestors whose names were recorded differently in the following languages (all for one person): Old Russian, German, Latvian, Lithuanian, Russian. It would also be nice to be able to add English spelling variations as well even if none of the documents were in English. And of course, all those fields should be searcheable.
3. Support for entering Russian patronymic names as those were always present in official documents.
4. Ability to enter contemporary location name as was well as its present-day-equivalent google maps searcheable address.
5. Nice family tree charts that deal elegantly with endogamy :)

Comments

I hope more users will enter Hebrew as well and other world languages in the biographies.  For example https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Simon-1403

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I agree, in general, with your points Patrick.

1. Doesn’t seem to be a problem. I’ve entered dual first names for several Scandinavian and Jewish ancestors and Wikitree doesn’t complain.

2. I’ve been putting the various language varieties in the Bio text and sometimes adding Polish, Lithuanian, or whatever, Categories for places.  Can’t imagine multiple entry boxes for multiple languages.

3. Other groups (the Scandinavians) put the patronymic as Middle Name if there is a Surname, but in the LNAB if there is no ‘family name’.

4.  See #2

5.  As if ;-)

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Yes, of course! I forgot the calendars! Definitely there's a need for support of both the Hebrew and Julian calendars. Most dates of Ashkenazi ancestors from 19th/early 20th century Russia are in Julian calendar, and were in fact never converted to Gregorian calendar when they arrived to Americas.

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The issue with nicely storing and displaying names in different languages will get resolved once WikiTree will start fully supporting Unicode. I still see a issues related to fonts.

However, the displaying Unicode characters and actually being able to fully integrate them are two different things. For example here's a list of how my great-grandfather surname appeared in official documents over a span of just 35 years in a single European city:

Муницъ - old Russian imperial passport 1906
מוניץ - marriage record - 1913
Munitz - WWI occupation era documents - 1916
Munic - early Latvian independence IDs - 1920
Munics - post-reform Latvian documents - 1929
Муниц - Latvian SSR, Soviet Union period - 1941

I'd also like to add English transliteration (Munits) of this Surname to the official list. Storing and showing these variations is not such a big deal, it mostly works fine. However, WikiTree is only fractionally capable of finding the proper profile when multiple surnames are used. This is a major shortcoming that I'm sure lessens the popularity of this otherwise fantastic genealogical platform among non-English speakers.

The whole interface should also be extended to allow menu, navigation, etc to be displayed in any language. The actual work of doing the proper translation can be performed by volunteers. I'm pretty sure such extensions in functionality can help increase popularity and use among genealogists from other countries.

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Patrick, I'm just going to throw one more thing in here for you.  The Lituanian records I find for Munitz or Munits using "sounds like" at jewishgen.org almost all show up there as Munetse.  The only variants I encountered on a recent search were 1 or 2 Munitse instantiations, so I think that's probably another needed variant.

Also, please add Hebrew and Yiddish to your item 2 - I often find names there in either Yiddish or Latin character equivalents of Hebrew.

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My great-grandfather never lived in Lithuania per-se, but for a period of a fee years he did obtain Lithuanian citizenship while living in Latvia. I omitted the Lithuanian spelling variation of our surname. I also didn't bother with additional different proper legal forms that are to be used by married or single women in Lithuania. Of course feminine form of spelling Munitz surname in Latvia is also yet another version.

Some versions even a smart soundex can't handle.

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On top of all that, the myriad "proper legal forms" are only the tip of the iceberg because I don't know anything about Latvia, but in Lithuania what records were kept for Jewish people were mostly recorded by the temple.  In cities or large towns, formal Hebrew names were often the ones recorded, while in less populated and/or rural areas, names were recorded in Yiddish.  To make matters worse, the names recorded were NOT the ones the parents intended for their children - the names they used were local - sometimes slang - versions, while the officials unilaterally recorded what they deemed proper versions of the names selected by the parents.

Trying to deal with this opens a real can of worms!

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Bravo, Robert, for all your continuing work on your large energy and information on your also large number of Jewish ancestors.

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YES, please add a field for patronyms! It is definitely not the same as a middle name and I have ancestors who had a first name, a middle name and a patronym. People with Russian and Volga German ancestors would benefit from this too!

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Great comment, Patrick about having more languages represented in our research pool.The Whole Family Tree goal includes them all, never mind for the nonce that it seems too huge to manage. Things will evolve.

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Evelina Staub, Your comment Seems reasonable and nearly effortless, but may not be.

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Patrick Munits, Thank you! Your comments made in a numbered list are impressive and your other ideas dated January 6. How do you handle these complex renderings now? I'd be making notes for things you've mentioned in the Biography section of each person's profile page.

I do understand that W-Tree's long-time "citizens" have realistic points denying that many of them can't put in  more time and money to get the items you/we need to make a thorough note about our ancestors' histories.

That said, would you be willing to put together one comment in several paragraphs about what you've been saying we need. In doing that, some pattern may out itself, and perhaps form a list of Genealogical Vitals. This list people could use in their ancestors' profile on the basis of need (for clarification) because that is, after all, what we all want for our families' people.

If/when you do this, please show it to Robert Hvitfeldt and to me (it goes to him first) and see if he connects to it as you'd want him to. He's the official point man for Jewish Roots Project and I'm now his sidekick, at my request.

(At this point, I need to find more ways to dig into finding the culture and customs of my ancestors' years on Earth. Perhaps your suggestions would get me closer to their realities in time and area of their lives.)

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Dear Roberta Burnett,

I do not believe that a custom solution to accommodate the needs of a specific group of users is the most effective way to move forward the universal genealogical collaboration platform that is WikiTree. Instead I believe that users of WikiTree have enough collective wisdom and experience to work out the best solution that will serve the needs of genealogists from every possible ethnicity.

Establishing templates creates boundaries, and this means that there ought to be exceptions that can’t be satisfied. I believe there’s a way to have no exceptions when it comes to personal names in genealogy. This can be achieved by separating name as a unit of information from a preset structure. On the hand a flexible system design that can accommodate unlimited configurations and presentations of names in any language would inherently have no boundaries.

I proposed a way how this can be accomplished with some technical implementation concepts detailed in this thread: https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/536471/db-schema-expansion-name-table?show=536471#q536471 The discussion in that thread is long with many examples in various languages. As shown it would easily accommodate the needs of Ashkenazi genealogists from every locale in Europe.

So far there has been no definite buy-in from the people who run WikiTree. I’m confident that this question will continue to arise over and over again until it will get addressed or if WikiTree gets overshadowed by some other solution.

In the meantime, in an effort to somehow increase the chances of people actually finding the profiles that I create using spelling variations I add those surnames into the “other surnames” fields, and try to add full names in various languages in the body of the profile. i.e.: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Munics-1

P.S. sorry, but I’m not sure how to tag Robert Hvitfeldt in my post so that he would be automatically alerted.

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Thanks, Patrick, for all your proposals and comments.  I see all the Jewish Roots tagged entries, though I’m not sure why Roberta asked for me to be notified specifically. Like you, I add assorted Hebrew, Russian, and even Swedish alternate spellings and orthographies into ‘other surnames’ and in the body of the Bios.  This may suffce until something better comes along. We persevere...

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Bob, hi. Your Question is easily answered: I suggested you as a contact for him because you know so much that I and others don't know.

Answer 2

Yes I do. I found this out recently. My grandmother used to say when she was a small girl she used to be taken to a synagogue and she listened to the beautifull singing. I established that her grandmother was a daughter of a catholic mother and a converted father. This father before taking on christian faith in 1846 in Warsaw, Poland, when he became "Józef Majewski" was  "Neuman Spicholtz", and his parents were called Szlama and Hana. The name Spicholtz is hard to locate anywhere, so I am looking for relatives.

 

have a great day,

Kasia

Comments

Kasia, My father also heard and loved the Jewish music he heard as a child in Connecticut. Music became a dear and private part of his life.

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Kasia, how did you discover the information about your gf x 3's conversion? I'm aware it was a life-saving move, and it strikes me as difficult to track.

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Not difficult to track at all. Such christenings were noted in books of christenings in parishes. I have a picture of this, will add as a source to his profile shortly. This was 1846 - not a lifesaving situation, surely. He wanted to marry a christian girl. Also there were more career opportunities for christians.

 

best luck in genealogy,

Kasia

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Try Pickholz

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I hope you have found some leads! --A tangle of facts is much better than none.

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When I lived in London in the 1970s I sometimes went to the West London Synagogue for Sabbath Eve Service with a Jewish friend and I still remember the beautiful singing of the Yigdal. I have never forgotten the melody though I couldn't get past the first line with the (Hebrew) words.

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Christine, I love your note above. Truly.

Answer 3

My Family is for many generations from Amsterdam (Mokum), my nickname is Manus, so do the Math.
So yes there is, as we say in Amsterdam everyone de Mazzel.

Herman Overmars
Uzelf  →  Antonius Wilhelmus Overmars
your father →  Wilhelmina Dreessen
his mother →  Wilhelmina Catharina Tiernego
her mother →  Bernardus Wilhelmus Tiernego
her father →  Berendina Lot
his mother →  Bernardus Wilhelmus Tiernego
her son →  Jansje van Zaanen
his wife →  Dirk van Saanen
her father →  Andries Dirkse van Sane
his father → Jan Dirkse Van Zanen
his brother →  Dirk van Zanen
his son →  Jan van Zanen
his son →  Dirk van Zanen
his son →  Niesje Beets
his wife →  Tede Beets
her brother →  Maria Elisabeth Beets
his wife →  Geertruida Wilhelmina Mullemeister
her mother →  Arie Emilius Middelkoop
her brother →  Margaretha Frederica Middelkoop
his daughter →  Elias Diamant
her ex-husband →  Sara Zeldenrust
his mother →  Kaatje Elias Zeldenrust
her sister →  Jacob Elias van Mindeno
her husband →  Maartje Aron van Collem
his mother →  Aron Eliazar / Leizer van Collem
her father → Eliazer Abraham van Collem
his father →  Jacob Jokeb Abraham van Kollem
his brother →  Vrouwtje Wolf Coblens
his wife →  Ze'ev Wolf Mozes Koblenz
her father

Answer 4

My 3x Great Grandmother was Sarah Noah Dacosta, a Serphardi Jew  https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Noah_Decosta-1 though she married a Christian and converted.  He parents were Solomon Noah Dacoata and Leah, but I can't find Leah's LNAB

Comments

https://nl.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Da_Costa
Maybe this can Help you?

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Thank you, it bears out that they came to London from Spain/Portugal as we thought. Do others find that the birth names of their Jewish ancestors change or at least are modified, from one generation to another?

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Bravo! for helping her, Herman! That's a good way for our project to work!! Everyone helping each other--another major type of collaboration!

Answer 5

2 weeks ago I would have said "No", but after getting my DNA results, I have .01% Ashkenazi Jewish..

Comments

There is likely at least .01% in nearly every eastern European and many western Europeans.  That a pretty tiny ampunt to trace.  Good luck.

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Same story with my husband and I.

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If you tip this line into history, you'll find someone with a more major percentage. Research question: Who is it and how far in the past did this person lend his/her genes?

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@ Roberta, Lynn & all

Good question.  And this math will vary as you get different amounts of DNA from different grandparents, but on the "average:"

50% from each parent

25% from grandparents

12.5% g grandparents

6.25% gg grandparents

3.125% ggg grandparents

1.526% ggg grandparents

.78125% gggg grandparents

.3906%% 5x great-grandparents

.195% 6x great-grandparents

.0976% 7x great-grandparents

.0488% 8x great-grandparents

.0244% 9x great-grandparents

.0122% 10x great-grandparents

While your mileage may vary, my known 10x great-grandparents were born ~ 1600.  In this case, Lynn had a Jewish ancestor some 4 centuries ago!

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Awesome!

And I imagine that after four generations, the importance of your list is to use it to find if you have a VIP person in your background. Now that's a way to salve curiosity!

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B"H

Jewish is determined by mtDNA not percentage.

Mine is J1b1b1.

Answer 6

Yes, Steinfeld in Mecklenburg-Schwerin. Charles Steinfeld (1808-1890) immigrated to the United States sometime before 1846. I have no information on his family in Germany. He settled in Marion County, Ohio. He married, first, Mary Ann Carpenter (1823-1847), in 1846 in Marion County, and, second, Lamira Page McWherter, in 1849 in Marion County, Ohio.

Answer 7

I have 2% Eastern Jewish in my DNA.  How can I find my Jewish roots?

Comments

Do you have any information at all?  Is it your mother’s or father’s side? A country of origin?  You might look at the Jewish Roots Project page. There are several links there. The Jewishgen site is a good place to start.

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Anonymous, hi !--  Unless you have unstated reasons for searching your Jewish roots, I'm of the opinion that under 10-12% Jewish means your fairly distant Jewish roots are so small as not to need research, but of course that's up to you and EVERYONE. 1-5%? 5-10% ?: Ditto. 

At 25%, that seems more significant: Your parent is 50% Jewish.

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Thank You.  I appreciate an honest answer.  It was just a hope!

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Remove the "just," Elaine, please. You still have every chance to be interested in the history of being Jewish, so keep trekking!. (I shared your hope, and I'm 21%.  But I still don't know his name. He's found as my father's father at Hilse-40.)

"He (my GF) is connected with me among the living by a family of Bermans in the USA, but perhaps his connection to them is from another of the names that appear in the trees listing Elizabeth Betty Berman (m. Kirshner) and Samuel Philip Berman, her brother, both now deceased (2016). My Jewish GF has roots originally from Lithuania. I know he gave me almost all of my Jewish roots, but the total amount is now 21% because FTDNA has stated that 10% of my former portion of DNA is now from India, so What remains is the 21% figure." 

Answer 8

My entire family is Jewish as far back as we have records, so yes.

Answer 9

Ashkenazi  genes in my DNA.  Our colonial patriarch arrived as a reformed Christian, but may have been a recent convert per a testimony in his Luther Bible in 1722. He likely came from an area of Germany that included many Ashkenazi Jews.

Comments

Tell us more: your story may help others!

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I have done much research on my surname's line after they came to the New World. I wish I knew more about how my greatX grandfather came to convert to Christianity in Germany.   There was much persecution of not just Jews, but Protestants as well during the 16th and 17th centuries.  Was my ancestor coerced into converting to Catholicism first, then found faith in the reformed movement?  I don't know.  I have yet to delve into any German records that might exist which explain his history there. I will appreciate any insight from others re:  Jewish records from that era.  I don't know German or Hebrew.

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ROGER, HI, Remember that we are a collaborative site. If you message us in G2G or Tree House, saying you need help translating THIS DOC and then you paste it in the message, someone will pop up on your behalf. Europeans, for instance, out of need for use will have more than one language.

I wish I had that trouble. My finding documents is rare any more. Does that well actually run dry?

Answer 10

Stutz is my Jewish surname which is also my brick wall.

My father and uncle were estranged from their parents growing up. Some of the stories I have heard were validated with genealogy records, while others are stubs which means to me they changed over time.

My grandfather was Joseph Pierpont Stutz, a U.S. Army veteran. He was a Presbyterian due to his mother was Priscilla Dorris, an Australian immigrant. My great-grandfather was Jackson Stutz. I believe he was banished from the Orthodox Jewish community marrying outside of his religion. I cannot locate any records to support this other then the mention of these names on my grandfather's SS application. His WWI records were destroyed in a fire. I believe Sam Stutz is his brother, but cannot link the correct one to the family because parental names don't match.

My father Alfred told me that my grandfather was an orphan and the large family was taken in by the Wexler family, but we don't know where this happened. Maybe New York, Massachusetts or Ohio as Joseph enlisted in the Army in Ohio after attending 2 years of college.

After I took a DNA test with 23 and Me, there were people contacting me with Jewish names I didn't recognize and their genealogy was not complete enough to reflect where "Stutz" linked into their family. But it was sort of stunning that they also had Slavic (Polish) and Russian in their backgrounds, when I was told our family line is Orthodox Jewish/German.

Comments

Judi Stutz--  Your narration above is fascinating, and I suggest trying to transfer (it may not be possible) your first DNA test to ftdna.com, a testing company only that does NOT continue to cost and re-cost you over time. It also provides LOTS OF MATCHES, depending on who's tested and that changes every month.

 BUT: If you haven't purchased an autosomal test, at ftdna.com also called the Family Finder (FF), just do that. The test there costs something, but first phone them to find out if you can transfer your 23/Me results and if you need to do more -- just do it. (My matches are in the 4000, or maybe 5, the last time I looked. They increase over time.)

Answer 11

In doing my family research, I came across two different women (direct grandmothers) in the 1700's who had Jewish sounding names. Both are on my mom's mom's line. I had no proof and my dna came back as zero Jewish, which was not a surprise considering how far back these roots go. Then I did my mother's aunt's dna (my great aunt, also sister to my grandmother as both my mom and grandmother are deceased); she is 91 years old and she came back 2% Ashkenazi Jew.

No surprise for me as it confirmed my suspicions that the two ancestors were Jewish, which are in her direct line. So, yes, I have some Jewish roots, but no, I do not carry any Jewish dna.

Since we all come from Noah and his three sons, at some point in history we would have all come from Jewish roots. :)

Comments

Lori--Good sleuthing!

    And another thought:  -- I think we should remember that we all go back across that "BC" demarcation line. (It's pretty far back and no one should complain about not knowing when or if whatever we find is "correct.")

Answer 12

My sixth great-grandfather was Moses Mordecai, who emigrated from Germany to Philadelphia in the 1750's (?).  He was one of the founding members of the Beth Israel congregation there.  He was a merchant who signed the boycott of English goods in the 1770's and his house still exists in Old City Philadelphia.  I would love to know more about him.

Comments

Try his name plus "founding member of Beth Israel temple in Philadelphia." That should give him some history.

Also go to family search.com to seek his vital records.

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Thank you!  The congregation was Mikveh Israel not Beth Israel. I even found a picture of his grave.

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Bravo@!@11

Answer 13

My grandfather, Maurice Louis Fauerbach [b. Oct 1871 in NY] was Jewish. His father Louis Fauerbach [von Feuerbach] was b. Dec 1833 in Kurhessen, Germany  and came to NY 15 Oct 1853. In general the family came from the Frankfurt area. They left before the holocaust but the records are tough to find

Answer 14

I've have had my DNA tested on several sites and most of them have given me a trace of European Jew. I have lines that go back into European Royalty and Nobility and I understand that there is a Jewish lineage through those lines.

Answer 15

Yes,  My grandmother was born in Lithuania and came over with her mother when she was two.  The family subsequently had four children - two boys and two girls.  The girls came first and the patriarch, Abraham, was not happy about that!  The original name was Schindler but when Abraham came over he changed it to Cohn (one of the seven tribes, I think.)  They landed in St. Louis and kept kosher until my grandmother married an Irish Catholic, John Patrick Maher.  The four siblings only produced three children, two of which were brought up Jewish and one of which, my mother , married a Protestant. My great grandmother never saw any of her family after moving to U.S. but a sister moved to South Africa.  The rest were swept away in the Holocaust.  Brave, brave people!

Comments

My good friend Steve is from a Jewish family, and he tells me that when HIS mother was a young woman in the 1920s and 1930s, she kept in contact with her cousins back in the "old country" via letters. Then World War II happened and... well, let's just say they were never heard from again.

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Yes, they were. Please immerse yourself in the history of European Jews. You will appreciate them more and more. And please try the puzzle next week in G2G. Check the Jewish Roots Project in Wikitree too for things to read. I started years ago by reading literary novels. Some great writers are Jewish. You'll learn the culture there.

Answer 16

I am still trying to find out who was Jewish in our Family. Hubby is 2% Ashkenazi, and he believes it is from his Polish/Russian side. The rest of his DNA is English and Dutch only 91%. My DNA showed I am 6% Sephardic Jew, and 27% Spain/Portuguese. 2 parts of my DNA I had no clue about. My Uncle (My dad's brother) was tested, and only tested 1% jewish. So I am thinking it is on my NY Grandfathers side. That is the only part of my tree I can not get back past 2xs GG's. but if my Uncle tested for Jewish, wouldn't that mean it's on that side too? Wonder why my % is higher than his? I'll keep digging. =)

Comments

Your mother could have some Jewish ancestry as well, there's no need for it to be on one side only. :)

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Oh ok, thank you. I will keep looking to see who it is. =)

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And veer off of your direct family lines when you research. You're likely to find surprises of every kind.

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If you're 2%, that means that your g-g-g-g-g-g+ parents were Jewish. There are charts that show you the % ratios by generations. Its something like 50% parents, 25% grandparents, 12% g-g, etc etc

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Thank you, I will look that up. Actually I am 6% and hubby is 2% so we will check it out and see who we have in the tree. =)

Answer 17

Yes, but I have yet to discover who they were. I have over 100 96% to 99% Ashkenazi DNA cousins on 23andMe but my 1.1% is so low that my Jewish ancestors may not be recorded in anyone's family trees. I think they are on my father's side from Germany approximately in the mid seventeen hundreds but I can't find any proof. This could be one mystery in my family tree that won't be solved.

Answer 18

Hi,

Jewish roots: the Salvador line would appear to be Spanish /Portuguese Sephardis and my maternal line from right on the German/Polish border would appear to have many connections that were Jewish (although the Dau family was not, as far as I can tell.) The deep roots are Russian, in Bahrain, Scottish all over so most likely, yes. The Cornish and English are not, as far as I can tell.

This is likely to be a very diverse and interesting project.

Regards

Elaine Hooper (born Salvador)

Answer 19

I was surprised when I had my DNA done that I came up 1%. I am waiting for my Geno 2.0 to see what it shows. I had my dad's DNA done and he is 2%!

Also, I think some might be surprised to see what they might learn about the Holocaust following this link: https://www.jw.org/en/news/releases/by-region/poland/auschwitz-concentration-camps-liberation/#?insight[search_id]=a6b078d7-c388-4708-b465-197c9f8edfc0&insight[search_result_index]=3

Comments

Many would also be horrified to learn of the Vatican's involvement in the Holocaust.   The Reichskonkordat of September 1933 gave Hitler the Green light and under the agreement he made with the Vatican the new Church Tax in Germany went straight to Rome.   During the War the Church ran half the Extirmination Camps in Croatia - it is all on the net and Jasenovac was the worst - run by the Franciscan Brothers.   Only one Archbishop - Stepinac got caught and put on trial - let off with 16 years and home imprisonment after 5 years.   Somebody big must have arranged that.

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After looking through "the net," please go to books written by historians. At a local college, university library or a state library, you will find readable, thorough stories that have become known. You have been given some important basic information in the two comments above--please follow them as your leads.

Answer 20

I was raised Jewish (not Christian) by my grandmother, my mother's mother, who lived with us when I was growing up. She had many Jewish customs and insisted her mother was totally Jewish, so I have always known I am a Jew, but now, it turns out, not in the way I had thought. Turns out, it was my grandmother's "wicked" stepmother (Nannie) who was Jewish --the one who raised her, not her birth mother who died when she was four years old.

Nannie was not well regarded by the family. They said she was mean and mistreated my grandmother. But if this were true, then why did my grandmother feel so connected to her? I suspect, therefore, the real reason my mother's family didn't get along with Nannie was because she had insisted on maintaining a Jewish home.

This means, of course, that I am not a Jew by birth, but it hasn't changed the fact that I am Jewish, and I'm no less Jewish than I was before I learned of it. Which may not be Jewish enough by some standards --I have much to learn, I'm sure.

Comments

Thank you Martyn, for this unraveling of a family story considered factual. And so it goes!

I too feel as you do. I have only a small (21%) amount of Ashkenazi DNA, but I've had it since birth. I wasn't raised in any religion but I went to Christian churches with my high school friends. (My younger friends in former years went to churches that were not established ones, and I didn't like the experiences.) When I started reading literary novels in college, I discovered philosophies and actions of life that seemed to me so much more humane and human than "the others." These writers were  Jewish authors, and I intuitively felt "at home."  

I hope you find them, they're everywhere on the best literature lists and you know plenty of them by name.  If you want names, just ask.

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Thank you, Roberta.

It's likely I have Jewish ancestry on my mother's father's Spanish side of the family (which doesn't show up distinctly Jewish on DNA tests). That might qualify me as Jewish in some Reform settings, if I could prove it. Formal conversion might be an option, at some point, but for now I'm happy with the way things are. I've always been more of a universalist, anyway. For me, Judaism and Hinduism and Catholicism are equally valid. None are perfect and each has room for growth.

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I believe you are correct a growing religion that is good for the people and not causing war or strife, whoever started it has to be applauded. I always had this theory just in my head and no proof at all only the fact that one of my teachers at school in 1950 said that people from the West originated from Mesopotamia this made me think that perhaps at one time we had all been Jewish. I have since discovered that several waves of emigration came out of Africa, that it has been thought that the first wave because there was a green corridor from East Africa to Egypt and Israel was where everyone went, However the last attempt went a lot further than Israel. Scientific and other finds could again prove this different.