Marriage Johannes Wit and Margretha Härtleinin married in New Hanover, Pennsylvania, in the New Hanover Evangelical Lutheran church on 23 April 1750. [1]
↑ Historical Society of Pennsylvania; Philadelphia, Pennsylvania; Historic Pennsylvania Church and Town Records; Reel: 667. Accessed on Ancestry.com in database Pennsylvania and New Jersey, U.S., Church and Town Records, 1669-2013, at https://www.ancestry.com/discoveryui-content/view/6639922:2451. Note: The record transcript shows her name as Margretha Härtleinin. The initial letter of the last name does not look like an H, but it corresponds to H in Kurrent script.
↑ Find a Grave, database and images (accessed 16 December 2022), memorial page for Anna Margretha Herdlein Witt (1728–8 Feb 1797), Find A Grave: Memorial #144579911; Burial Details Unknown; Maintained by 47117651 (contributor 47117651).
Pennsylvania and New Jersey, Church and Town Records, 1708-1985 Ancestry.com Publication: Ancestry.com Operations, Inc.
U.S. and International Marriage Records, 1560-1900 Yates Publishing Publication: Ancestry.com Operations Inc
Acknowledgments
Thank you to Brad McGuire for creating WikiTree profile Herdlein-5 through the import of McGuire_s of Makanda_2013-12-07_7 gen.ged
Thanks to Katie Boosted for starting this profile, May 17, 2013.
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DNA Connections
It may be possible to confirm family relationships with Anna Margaretha by comparing test results with other carriers of her mitochondrial DNA.
However, there are no known mtDNA test-takers in her direct maternal line.
It is likely that these autosomal DNA test-takers will share some percentage of DNA with Anna Margaretha:
Normally, in German, if you cannot use an umlaut, you add an 'e' after the character. So, 'Müller' becomes 'Mueller'. There is a big difference in 'Mull', which translates literally to 'garbage', and 'Müller', which translates to 'miller'.
I think it should be "Härtlein" as noted in the marriage record. Greg has a good point as to the changed meaning of a simple "a" vs. ä/ae. When Härtlein is entered in Geogen 480 instances are found in the exact area of her birth.
I don't like extra redirects, but feel we should use the earliest and most proper LNAB.
Following with interest the discussion about the LNAB and using the "in" as part of the last name. I don't know if there are any guidelines about using the "in" as a permanent part of the last name, but I would think that as it is a designation of the gender of the holder of the name it should not be a formal part of the last name. German (what little I remember from high school) has feminine and masculine forms for words/names that English doesn't. "Die" (female), "Der" (male), and Das (neuter) all for the English "the". I have been dropping the "in" as part of the LNAB but would like to confirm that that is the correct practice.
This might be a good question to ask of the Germany Project. One of those members would know whether Hartleinin is ever used as a LNAB. I think not, but to be certain, we could open a discussion on G2G.
Edit: Judy, I truly think you are correct in dropping the "in" from the LNAB. That is what I would do if I encountered "Härtleinin" in a record.
I think that hartlein should merge into herdlein because of neww bethel zion church cemetery of her husband has her name spelled that way thius is just my thought
Thanks for pointing that out. That's the spelling on her FindaGrave memorial, but unfortunately the memorial does not have a gravestone image and there is no indication of where the information in the memorial came from. Thus, it's not a reliable source of evidence for her name.
Of the sources cited on these profiles, the FindaGrave memorial is the only cited source that is identifiable from the information provided. The LNAB is supposed to represent her last name at birth. Are descendants aware of baptism records (in Germany) for her or other family members?
EDITED: The marriage record calls her Härtleinin. The "in" probably is a feminine suffix on Härtlein or Hartlein. The Härtleinin-2 profile for her got merged away, but if Härtleinin is determined to be the best estimate of her LNAB, the name on one of these profiles could be revised to Härtleinin.
Check the Strassburger script reference here: https://archive.org/details/pennsylvaniagerm04penn_1/page/890/mode/1up?view=theater. It looks like a G, but it is definitely a version of the Old German orthography for H. I can't look carefully until later tonight, but at first glance the second letter appears to be an ö... or ä. Either is more proper and more likely than the English "e." IMHO.
The Geogen website has both Hartlein and Herdlein as German surnames, with very few modern instances of either name. The 9 instances of Hartlein are mostly in northern Germany, and all 7 instances of Herdlein are in Bavaria. However, Hertlein is a common name, with occurrences all over Germany, predominantly in Bavaria (where this woman is supposed to be from).
PS (edited) - The vowel with the umlaut can't be an e, as there is no e with umlaut in German. As for ö, Geogen reports no instances of "Hortlein."
Looking at the spelling of Johannes in the record following her marriage record, the letter with the umlaut looks identical to the "a" in Johannes. I really do think Härtlein(in) was the correct spelling at least at the time of her marriage as recorded by a German pastor. It seems to me, the marriage record points to the spelling Härtlein. Geogen finds 480 instances of Härtlein, with 61% located in Bavaria. As you pointed out previously, the "in" is used to denote a female (usually an unmarried female).
PS. Quote from Geogen.."Considering the population density the most HAERTLEINs can be found in Neustadt a.d. Aisch-Bad Windsheim (Bayern), namely 195 entries per million.
I also had several ancestors at the New Hanover Lutheran Church and the family name spellings sometimes differed in just a few years time even by the same minister. Then some tombstones can appear to have different spellings, sometimes because they do, the style of German script or even because of the material and weathering.
Robin, Good points. I agree with your logic, however, often spelling is a reflection of the level of education of the original person documenting the surname. Given the period of time, I think we're lucky folks were actually writing at all. LOL. Then there is the German v English spelling as well. Heck, my Mom's maiden name was Hartline, which is how I came to receive a middle name of "Hart" and when I heard the words "Bradley Hart" I KNEW I was in for a world of hurt!!!!
Herdlein-5 and Hartlein-9 appear to represent the same person because: Clear Duplicate...
Last name should be Herdlein, since both parents have that spelling, and Anna married a Witt. If her brothers changed the spelling for the next generation, that doesnt affect Annas name at birth...
Are we staying with Hartlein or doing one more redirect into Härtlein, with the umlaut?
According to the [|Germany Project Name Field Guidelines], it is proper to use Härtlein. Special characters should be preserved.
Normally, in German, if you cannot use an umlaut, you add an 'e' after the character. So, 'Müller' becomes 'Mueller'. There is a big difference in 'Mull', which translates literally to 'garbage', and 'Müller', which translates to 'miller'.
I don't like extra redirects, but feel we should use the earliest and most proper LNAB.
There is an extensive discussion on G2G about the use of gendered surnames..https://www.wikitree.com/g2g/1461431/help-with-german-surname-forms-for-females?show=1461431#q1461431
The relevant page for the Germany Project is here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:German_Names#Female_endings
Bottom line is... remove the "in" suffix and use the neutral form for LNAB... Härtlein, Hartlein, Herdlein...
Thanks for your help.
Edit: Judy, I truly think you are correct in dropping the "in" from the LNAB. That is what I would do if I encountered "Härtleinin" in a record.
edited by Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
Of the sources cited on these profiles, the FindaGrave memorial is the only cited source that is identifiable from the information provided. The LNAB is supposed to represent her last name at birth. Are descendants aware of baptism records (in Germany) for her or other family members?
EDITED: The marriage record calls her Härtleinin. The "in" probably is a feminine suffix on Härtlein or Hartlein. The Härtleinin-2 profile for her got merged away, but if Härtleinin is determined to be the best estimate of her LNAB, the name on one of these profiles could be revised to Härtleinin.
edited by Ellen Smith
PS (edited) - The vowel with the umlaut can't be an e, as there is no e with umlaut in German. As for ö, Geogen reports no instances of "Hortlein."
edited by Ellen Smith
PS. Quote from Geogen.."Considering the population density the most HAERTLEINs can be found in Neustadt a.d. Aisch-Bad Windsheim (Bayern), namely 195 entries per million.
edited by Kie (Entrikin) Zelms
Last name should be Herdlein, since both parents have that spelling, and Anna married a Witt. If her brothers changed the spelling for the next generation, that doesnt affect Annas name at birth...