Polish LNAB conventions - nobility

Question

Hello,

A bunch of recently orphaned profiles apparently has LNAB issues. They look Polish and the format for many of them is "Something h. SomethingElse". I doubt the "h. " should be in the LNAB (not sure about the CLN) but would like to make sure this is OK or if those profiles should be fixed and what would be the proper LNAB.

Examples are https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Wodzi%C5%84ski_h._Jastrz%C4%99biec-5 and family, the family of https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Colonna-Walewski-5 and https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Morsztyn_h._Leliwa-2 (note that her father also has a LNAB issue) and there's probably more.

I'm currently dealing with related French profiles, but the Polish part is out of my area of competence.

Thanks for your help cleaning this up!

Comments

h may be referring to 'herb', i.e. the coat of arms of Jastrzębiec

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In support of what Steve said:

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jastrz%C4%99biec_(herb_szlachecki)

https://fabrykabizuterii.com/herb-jastrzebiec

https://www.polishroots.com/Research/Heraldry/HerbJastrzebiec?PageId=176

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Thank you both. Yes, I was aware it had something to do with nobility, but as said elsewhere, plenty of profiles for Polish nobles don't have it. It does look like something for the Current Last Name, rather than LNAB (similar to "Lord Whatever of MyPoshResidence" you see with English gentlemen).

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Presently, Polish Nobility is part of European Aristocrats and thus would follow their guidelines.  This is Maggie's area of expertise, but I would expect that this page Name Fields for European Aristocrats would be the protocol for Polish nobility as well.  

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see also Polish Naming Conventions

Answer 1

Thank you, Steve. 

Yes, H or small h, means "Herbu". It signifies that this particular surname, or a certain group of surnames, is from a certain branch of a family or related families with a Coat of Arms. Polish heraldry is very different from other countries' system of heraldry.

For reference: https://www.geni.com/discussions/153185

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Szlachta

Examples of a coat of arms:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grabie_coat_of_arms

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bojcza_coat_of_arms

Basically, the Priests writes the family Szlatchta name in the person's records when they are born or married. For instance, there can be a village full of people with the surname of Kamienski but only a few Kamienski can be "Szlatcha" and can use that coat of arms, or seal.

There's numerous studies, mostly written in Polish, about old Polish nobilty surnames. 

Answer 2

Sorry, but I have no idea.  I tried looking at the sources. But only a couple are online and didn't reveal anything.   Maybe ask the profile manager of the last profile in the list you shared.  Hopefully she can help.

Tina

Comments

Thank you for responding.  I was aware the "h. " had something to do with nobility but could not see anything in the Poland project pages explaining how to deal with that. I see plenty of other profiles for Polish nobles and they have no "h."

As for the manager of the last profile... He had actually created the profile as Morsztyn, but then the person who managed all the other profiles I mentioned merged it into a duplicate she had created and so kept her h. LNAB.

Answer 3

They just opened up a bunch of Polish nobility profiles. I adopted these and the Poland Project will work on them with sources.

Once again, usually, people with these surnames title/designation are associated with a location too.

Comments

Oh good. Thank you Maggie. That was what I hoped would happen. These profiles are in great need of care.

Answer 4

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Morsztyn_h._Leliwa-2

This one is done wrong. The Herbu should not be part of the WikiTree ID surname.

Comments

Yep! that was also my impression. I hoped to make sure.