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Elizabeth (Newman) Green (bef. 1613 - aft. 1687)

Elizabeth Green formerly Newman
Born before in Strood, Kent, Englandmap
Daughter of [father unknown] and [mother unknown]
[sibling(s) unknown]
Wife of — married 1642 [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Mother of , and
Died after after age 73 in Massachusetts Bay Colonymap
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Profile last modified | Created 19 Dec 2011
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The Puritan Great Migration.
Elizabeth (Newman) Green migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1621-1640).
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Contents

Disputed Associations

Elizabeth (Newman) Green was associated as the daughter of Robert Newman (Newman-643) of Queen Carmel, Somerset, England and Northumberland, Virginia. Elizabeth's father was a Robert, but no support was show for it to have been this particular Robert, Newman-643. This association was disputed by WikiTree collaborators; it was severed in 2021.

Biography

Elizabeth was christened 3 Oct 1613 as daughter of Robert Newman at St. Nicholas Strood, Kent, England.[1]

She is confirmed in this family based on a deed describing a lawsuit amongst the daughters of Robert Newman of "Stroud, Kent" (sic, there is a "Stroud" in Gloucs. but presumably the deed referred to "Strood, Kent" bearing in mind the looser spelling in the 1600s) and sister of Joane Newman (married Matthew Wing, had son John, all 3 dead while John was still in his minority) and sister of Anne Newman (married Thomas Griffen). These relationships are described in an article submitted to the NEHGR in 1884 by William H. Whitmore entitled the "Wing Family" seems to have the most solid proof and reasoning that her name was Newman.[2] Mr. Whitmore quoted from a deed in his possession which included information about a lawsuit within this family. Although a picture might be simpler, a summary of the proof in this article follows.

Joane Newman married Matthew Wing and had son John; this family lived in New England, apparently Plymouth but returned to England. When Matthew died, Joane transferred her rights to his estate to James Green "of the town of Malden" in New England who had married Joane's sister Elizabeth Newman. Apparently James was supposed to manage the estate and provide for Joane and her young son John, which he did not per his "frauds". Joane and John also died by 1680 so the surviving brothers of Matthew got together with Hannah, niece of the 3rd Newman sister Anne Newman Griffen in order to sue James and Elizabeth Newman Green. Hannah, now wife of William Shankes, proceeded with the lawsuit. Further details follow, but that's the gist of "how do we know the surname of the wife of James Green of Malden, later Charlestown."

Newman Records in Kent

No Newman baptisms are found at Strood between 1593 and Elizabeth's 1613 record at freereg.org.uk. However, her sister Anne married in 1630 so was probably born by 1610. Possibly their father Robert lived elsewhere first as his marriage, apparently to Joan (described below) is not found in Strood.

The marriage of Elizabeth's sister Anne Newman and Thomas Griffen is found at St. Nicholas, Strood Kent on 15 Jul 1630[3]. Their daughter Hannah "Griffine" was christened there 21 Apr 1633[4] and she married a William "Lukmes" on 17 May 1660 at St. Nicholas Strood, Kent; perhaps this is a bad transcription? Lukmes is certainly an unusual name.[5] Findmypast.co.uk transcribes his name as "Lukines". How this relates to Mr. Whitmore's "William Shankes" is uncertain, an original register image might reveal an alias since the deed did use the name "Shankes". It would seem possible that this was the Thomas and Anne Griffen listed as passengers in September 1635 on the "Dorset" (master John Flowers, bound for Bermuda) although Hannah was not listed.[6] p. 132/133

Elizabeth's sister Sara was christened 17 Dec 1615[7] and died 4 Jan 1615/16[8]; Joane/Joanna was christened 12 Jan 1616/17 as daughter of Robert at St. Nicholas Strood.[9] followed by brother John on 22 Nov 1618[10] who died 1 Feb 1619/20[11] another Sara on 29 Aug 1621[12] and another John son of Robert on 3 Aug 1623[13]. A sister Mary appeared 26 Sep 1624.[14] and died the following 31 Jan 1624/25.[15]

A Joane, wife of Robert, was buried 2 Jun 1625 at Strood.[16] She may have been the mother of these children and was followed in death by Robert Newman, "Clerk of this parish" on 3 Nov 1625.[17] If these were the parents of the above children, they were obviously left orphaned very young. A marriage of Robert Newman to Joan Willes is found about 20 miles away at Tonbridge, Kent on 22 Aug 1604,[18] but there is no particular reason to assume these are the same people. Further research is warranted.

All other sources report her surname as wife of James Green(e) without source or proof. Torrey reports it with a question mark and stating they married by 1642 in Charlestown.[19] See Research Notes. Hotten[6] and Anderson[20] agree that she was enrolled as a ship passenger under her own name on the "James" on 19 June 1635.

Other sources (Wyman's "Genealogies & Estates of Charlestown"[21] and Virkus' "Compendium of American Genealogy"[22] simply assert her name as Elizabeth (Wyman) or Elizabeth Newman (Virkus) with no source or proof.

Death

She was listed in the 5 May 1687 probate of husband James of Charlestown but her fate after that is uncertain.

Research Notes

New England Marriages to 1700. He is James Green (-1687, ae 77), an uncle of Henry Way; she is Elizabeth [Newman]; marriage is by 1642, ?Stroud, England, residence as Charlestown/Malden. Works consulted are "Charlestown 437; Reg. 5:467, 38:376; Green (,4) 7; Vinton Mem. 394; Sinnott 210; NYGBR 30:54; Swift (1955) 80."[23]

IGI Search (by batch) - Strood. See ArcherSoftware.

Batch J131321, Births/Bapts 1565-1721 (searching New* 1520-1650)
Batch K131321, Births/Bapts 1565-1721 (searching New* 1520-1650)
Batch M131321, Marriages 1565-1721 (searching New* 1520-1650)
No batch for burials reported there

History of Strood. By Henry Smetham, History of Stood (1899) includes a chapter, "Our Parish Registers,"[24] that is more descriptive of the registers, but some extracts appear. An Newman burial reported in 1625, "A heavy list this year . [including] Robert Newman, Clarke of this Parish : alsoe John Ffarlye, Servant to Robert Newman, deseased the 12 daye (Novr.) ..." (page 92).

Sources

  1. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf0e93790ec8b458546 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Elizabeth Newnam 03 Oct 1613
  2. ↑ William H. Whitmore, "The Wing Family," The New England Historical and Genealogical Register, 38 (1874):376-378, at 377; digital images, InternetArchive.
  3. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817efefe93790eb7fdca901 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) marriage Thomas Griffen to Anne Newnam 15 Jul 1630
  4. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf6e93790ec8b458d39 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Hannah Griffen 21 Apr 1633
  5. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5817eff1e93790eb7fdcac3b : viewed 25 Nov 2021) marriage William Lukmes to Hanna Griffine 17 May 1660
  6. ↑ 6.0 6.1 Hotten, John Camden. The Original Lists Of Persons Of Quality (J.W. Bouton, New York, 1874), p. 88.
  7. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf1e93790ec8b458627 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Sara Newnam 17 Dec 1615
  8. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818152de93790ec75bee7c2 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) burial Sara Newnam 04 Jan 1615/6
  9. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf1e93790ec8b458681 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Joanna Newnam 12 Jan 1616/7
  10. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf2e93790ec8b458750 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism John Newnam 22 Nov 1618
  11. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/5818152ee93790ec75bee951 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) burial John Newnam 01 Feb 1619/20
  12. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf2e93790ec8b45889b : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Sara Newnam 29 Aug 1621
  13. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf3e93790ec8b45899b : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism John Newnam 03 Aug 1623
  14. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58185cf3e93790ec8b458a11 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) baptism Marye Newnam 26 Sep 1624
  15. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58181530e93790ec75beeb2e : viewed 25 Nov 2021) burial Marye Newnam 31 Jan 1624/5
  16. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58181530e93790ec75beeb6e : viewed 25 Nov 2021) burial Joane Newnam 02 Jun 1625.
  17. ↑ Kent : Strood : St Nicholas of Myra : Parish Register : "Parish Register" database, FreeREG (https://www.freereg.org.uk/search_records/58181530e93790ec75beebe0 : viewed 25 Nov 2021) burial Robert Newnam 03 Nov 1625
  18. ↑ "England Marriages, 1538–1973 ", database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:V5VZ-45G : 12 March 2020), Rob Newman, 1604.
  19. ↑ Torrey, Clarence Almon. Torrey’s New England Marriages Prior to 1700 (Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc. Baltimore, 1985) Green, James (1687, age 77) (uncle of Henry Way) & Elizabeth [Newman]; ?Stroud, Eng, b 1642; Charlestown/Malden Vol 1. p. 653
  20. ↑ Anderson, Robert Charles. The Great Migration Begins: Immigrants to New England, 1634-1635 (New England Historic Genealogical Society, Boston, 1995) Volume V, M-P., Page 250 $subscription
  21. ↑ Wyman, Thomas Bellows. The Genealogies and Estates of Charlestown in the county of Middlesex and commonwealth of Massachusetts, 1629-1818, (D. Clapp, Boston, 1879) Page 437
  22. ↑ Virkus, Frederick A. The Abridged Compendium of American Genealogy, multiple vols. (Chicago, A.N. Marquis & company, 1925), 1:978; digital images, Hathi Trust.
  23. ↑ Green-[Newman] by 1642 marriage, New England Marriages Prior to 1700, multiple vols. (2015), 1:653 (Green); database and digital image by subscription, AmericanAncestors.
  24. ↑ Henry Smetham, History of Stood' (Strood : Sweet, 1899), 87+; digital images, InternetArchive.

See Also

  • The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record|The New York Genealogical and Biographical Record]] (New York Genealogical and Biographical Society, 1870-) Vol. 30, Page 54.




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Comments: 7

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GeneJ X
Newman-1625 and Newman-974 appear to represent the same person because: The abridged compendium of American genealogy, vol 1, 978 https://hdl.handle.net/2027/mdp.39015011819037?urlappend=%3Bseq=990%3Bownerid=13510798899577408-1054
posted by GeneJ X
Brad Stauf
I wonder about the father. He is described as "of Strood, Kent" (aka "Stroud" but not the one in Gloucs). Is this the same Robert who then went to Virginia with daughter Jane? Hmm...
posted by Brad Stauf
GeneJ X
Robert Newman (1588-bef. 21 January 1655) profile at Geni.com mentions both a death at Virginia and daughter Jane Presley. Profile has abstract of his will, "sealed 2nd of January 1655." Mentions "Mr. William Persly my loving nephew."

Birth location is Queen Camel, Somerset, England; death location is Northumberland County, Virginia Colony.

posted by GeneJ X
edited by GeneJ X
GeneJ X
Thank you Brad. Have posted a note on the profile of her linked father regarding apparent conflicts. --Gene.
posted by GeneJ X
[Living Martin]
Unknown-581419 and Newman-974 do not represent the same person because: Brad Stauf said Newman-974 is essentially a person that didn't exist. She certainly is NOT the renamed Unknown-581419 profile; this profile belongs to Elizabeth Lynde, aka Elizabeth Lynde Swindells and the Lynde-455 profile was created to replicate a new Elizabeth Lynde, which will not make any sense to merge what was originally Lynde-1 now Unknown-581419 into Elizabeth Green (Newman-974).
posted by [Living Martin]
Brad Stauf
As I explained several times, there is no proof or source for Elizabeth Newman's existence as stated i.e. "wife of Thomas Green, immigrant to Malden". Only a 2004 private publication "Windows into our Past" which asserted her name as Newman in addition to a Green lineage in England which also had no sources. That lineage led to the Thomas Green of Malden, Massachusetts who YOU insist was married to Elizabeth Lynde Swindell, for which you have no sources.

You can't have it both ways that Elizabeth Newman was the wife of Thomas Green of Malden and that Elizabeth Lynde Swindells was the wife of Thomas Green of Malden. One has to be wrong.

Further, this Elizabeth Newman is proved to be the wife of JAMES Green (see Wing Family and the documented lawsuit), not THOMAS Green. So if I ever said "she did not exist" I was incorrect. When I DID say "she is not the wife of Thomas Green" I was correct.

posted by Brad Stauf
edited by Brad Stauf
[Living Martin]
Unknown-581419 and Newman-974 do not represent the same person because: Not the same Elizabeth Green (changed to Unknown-581419) whose associated last name is Lynde and Swindells. Elizabeth Newman should be considered to be a separate and different Elizabeth Green and can be a different "unknown" Elizabeth until her true parentage is found. The issue stems from differing sources being used: Kempton Genealogy which needs further study which has inspired evidence for this "Elizabeth "Newman" and documentation surrounding the lineage of Thomas Green born 1606 in England, versus compiling evidence of a Thomas Green of Malden Mass born in 1606 who married an Elizabeth "Lynde". Creating a free space profile for each, separate Thomas Green/Elizabeth ? couples so that the children of each couple may be better identified and researched. See https://www.familytreedna.com/public/Green?iframe=yresults for more details.
posted by [Living Martin]

Rejected matches › Elizabeth (Newman) Thomas (abt.1815-) › Elizabeth (Greene) Oldfield (1603-) › Elizabeth (Unknown) Greene (abt.1610-1658)

Featured National Park champion connections: Elizabeth is 12 degrees from Theodore Roosevelt, 22 degrees from Stephanus Johannes Paulus Kruger, 13 degrees from George Catlin, 13 degrees from Marjory Douglas, 23 degrees from Sueko Embrey, 12 degrees from George Grinnell, 25 degrees from Anton Kröller, 13 degrees from Stephen Mather, 21 degrees from Kara McKean, 14 degrees from John Muir, 16 degrees from Victoria Hanover and 26 degrees from Charles Young on our single family tree. Login to find your connection.

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Categories: Puritan Great Migration