Help us find and improve profiles for this week's Connection Finder: Royalty [closed]

Question

Prince Philip passed away this week, and to honor his memory, we're making a last minute change in the Connection Finder for April 14th.

We're looking for other royalty to feature alongside him. Narrowing the list will be difficult, so we need your help!

Who do you think we should feature?

Can you help with these profiles, or expand their families? Adding relatives in any direction helps with connections. Every missing relative you add will make our connections to them closer.

Who else should we feature? Do they need a profile?

All profiles we feature need a good biography and a connection to the big tree. We also want each one to have an image, and the image needs to have proper source attribution explaining why it's in the public domain or why we have the right to display it.

We can't feature everyone mentioned (we only have room for eight per week), but if we don't feature a profile you work on, we may use it sometime in the future. And, of course, all contributions help improve our shared tree.

We'll make a final decision on which ones to feature early next week.

Please reply here with what you're working on so that we don't duplicate our efforts. Thank you!

To help us plan future themes, see the 2021 Example Profile Plans post here.

Comments

Most royals are very well connected (in both ways) and most of the possible connections will be living, pre-1500 or obscure non-European royals.

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obscure non-European royals.

commented by Aaron Gullison

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And this is a chance to give a little prominence to the somewhat obscure.  

I am one who loves to find out how the Connections go to people not otherwise noted, even though they are Notable.

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If we're looking for the "somewhat obscure", here are a few with the sort of background you might not expect in royalty:

- Joséphine (Napoléon's 1st wife), obscure petty nobility in the Antilles (so obscure that her ancestry is not that well developed: the records are brutal to find)

- Charlotte de Monaco, mother of Prince Rainier, with a diverse ancestry (and very humble, on her mother's side)

- Queen Désirée of Sweden, of a family of merchants of Marseilles.

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Not saying we shouldn't, just an FYI and hoping for some light on the dimmer portions of the tree.

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Either that, or spouses of most recently departed royals, from various royal families around the world.

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Among the queens of humble origin I'd like to mention Karin Månsdotter.

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I found a little mistake in Philip's biography. Just in March there was born his tenth greatgrandchild.

Answer 1

Dutch ones and also husbands of reigning Queens just like Prince Phillip:

Klaus von Amsberg, late husband of the retired Queen Beatrix of the Netherlands  (reign: 1980- 2013), profile is  connected, written profile and photograph

Bernard van Lippe-Biesterfeld, husband of Queen Juliana of the Netherlands (reign: 1949 - 1980) both deceased. Profile is connected, written and has a photograph.

Comments

Thanks, Eef!

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Yes! that's exactly who I was thinking about!

In the same vein, the current Queen of Denmark's late consort, French-born Prince Hendrik.

Answer 2

Lord Louis Mountbatten, Philip's beloved uncle (and Prince Charles's).

Grace Kelly de Monaco - married into the ruling family of Monaco.

Harold Godwinson - pre-Norman England

Kenneth III McAlpin - Scotland

Valdemar I av Danmark - Denmark (great-grandson of Harold Godwinson)

Håkon Sigurdsson - Haakon II - King of Norway

Queen Sālote Tupou III -- Tonga -- has pic, is Connected, but bio needs a lot of TLC.

Liliʻuokalani - the only queen regnant of the Kingdom of Hawai`i - is Connected, but in dire need of TLC as has no bio, and no pic (I can fix the pic, but doubt my abilities on the bio)

Te Arikinui Dame Te Atairangikaahu - Māori, New Zealand - has pic, has bio (but could do with some beef), is Connected

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I should stop now, to let others have a say.

(edited to say where Sālote ruled.)

Comments

Great diversity there, Melanie. Thank you! That's exactly what I was hoping for. For some reason, I thought we had featured a Queen of Hawaii at some point. I'll have to take a look; maybe we can use that profile instead, if needed.

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I couldn't think of any others - and wanted to nominate some females, because the preponderance of those nominated are likely to be male.

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the danish royal family has a reigning queen. And you can always propose the wives of kings if you are looking for women.

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I did nominate one from Denmark, and one from Norway, but thought I should leave some for the Nordic Project members to add!

I also wanted to get out of "Europe" and the associated areas, hence my looking to the Pacific.

Example of non-European -- Thailand lost a King a few years ago (bio needs TLC).  There'd be the Sultans of Brunei.  Laos.  India (Shah Jahan and Mumtaz Mahal spring to mind).  Nepal.  China.

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I think it would be cool to nominate consorts. For Belgium, instead of Baudouin (I mentioned elsewhere), then his very popular mother, Queen Astrid (Swedish-born) or his grandmother, Elisabeth.

The non-European ones are harder. The good thing with the Europeans: they're all going to be connected. But not many of them have good bios.

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Would that be Consorts, or consorts -- or is that a distinction without a difference?

(I agree that nominating the spouses would be a good idea, but I couldn't think of any when I started typing and looking for profiles.  Well, except for Mumtaz Mahal, and I couldn't find a WT profile.  (My search-fu sucks.))

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@Melanie this Capital distinction is way above my pay grade... I would not know the difference.

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My understanding has always been that Consort (which Philip Mountbatten was NOT) was a distinct title,  Victoria's husband, Albert WAS "Prince Consort".

The lower-case consort would be simply "spouse", but no raise in status, or title, other than the marriage to the monarch/ruler.

Elizabeth the Queen Mum was Queen consort, but also Queen by coronation.  Albert was never crowned, so was never "King Albert" (which, by many accounts, always rankled with him.

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Going with consorts --

Prince Jørgen Oldenburg better known as Prince George, consort of England's Queen Anne (Stuart/Stewart).

And also (needs a lot of TLC) -- Stéphanie Clotilde Louise Herminie Marie Charlotte (of Belgium and of Austria).

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Also a consort for an English Queen, but a King in his own right elsewhere, would be Philip II of Spain. 

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A Consort is the husband of the reigning monarch.  Prince Philip wasn't 'king consort' because the prince married Queen Elizabeth II five years before she became queen – but when she was crowned, he wasn't given the title of king. That's because Prince Philip, who is actually a former prince of Denmark and Greece, was never in line to the British throne.

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Prince Albert, however, married Queen Victoria.

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And Prince Albert was the 'Prince Consort'.

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I believe that was a title created for him, because Victoria would not name him King, or have him crowned.  Admittedly, that is coming from things I read several decades ago, and not anything I have recently updated myself on.

I had a book on the Royals once - and I'm pretty sure it explained the "why" of Prince Philip not being named Consort.  (Faulty memory says it was something to do with him having more "freedom" if he was not.)

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I can't promise stellar quality, but I'm keen to work on improving the biography of Te Atairangikaahu. She and I share the same birthday :-)

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Thanks, Amelia!

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Yes, he was already "Prince".  But "Duke of Edinburgh" was given to him by the British.

EDITED TO CLARIFY

According to Wikipedia, before his engagement to Princess Elizabeth in 1947, he renounced all his Greek and Danish titles, and was created Duke of Edinburgh by George VI. In 1957 he was made a British Prince.

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His former daughter-in-law, Diana Spencer Windsor, Princess of Wales.

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I think who ever is chosen, it should be post-1500.

Just a slight diversion to clear up some things about Queen Consorts and Prince Consorts.  Queen Consorts are almost always crowned, either jointly with their husbands, as was King George VI and Elizabeth (later the Queen Mother) or in a separate ceremony as was Matilda of Flanders, the wife of William the Conqueror.

However, perhaps because there have been far fewer King/Prince Consorts, what actually happens is less defined.  I don't know whether Philip II of Spain, the husband of Mary I, was actually crowned, but he was definitely known as King of England and Ireland, and the regnal years (which were used as a dating format) included him after their marriage.

William of Orange the husband of Mary II was different again, because they were joint monarchs and he was crowned as William III, and remained as King even after Mary's death.

I think that the reason Prince Albert, the husband of Queen Victoria, was only Prince Consort and never took the title of King or was crowned, had more to do with the governments of the day and not Victoria herself.

Not sure of why Prince Philip was never crowned or given the title of King Consort, but suspect it was partially his choice.  Perhaps like Prince George of Denmark and Norway, the husband of Queen Anne, he was content to be her loyal subject and a Duke.

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Actually Prince Philip was in line for the British throne but very distantly.  He was a descendant of Princess Alice, the second daughter of Queen Victoria and Prince Albert.

Actually the Queen and Prince Philip were third cousins in descent from Queen Victoria, and second cousins, once removed from King Christian VIII of Denmark.

One of the things I've always found interesting about European royalty is how inter-related they all are.

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For anyone interested, I've finished an overhaul of the biography for Te Arikinui Dame Te Atairangikaahu, former Maori queen :) It was definitely fascinating to learn about, as I'm not of Maori descent, and it made me prouder to share my birthday with her :D

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"One of the things I've always found interesting about European royalty is how inter-related they all are."

Not so strange when the rule is that you have to marry someone of royal blood. Exceptions are... exceptions. Another, correlated, aspect is how geographically extended their kinship network is. The farming populations of pre-industrial times were, as far as I can see, just as interrelated - but within a much smaller area.

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Amelia, you have done a wonderful job of that profile! Ka pai!

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Also not so strange when the goal is to maintain or increase land, wealth and power. The upper classes like to keep everything within the family.

Answer 3

People work really hard improving profiles for the Connection Finder.  But there is always a fifty-fifty chance that the topic will be changed at the last moment. I realise that all work improves the tree but the work required for an example profile is exceptional.

Colour me disappointed.

Comments

Stephen,

The work is never wasted-no theme is ever permanently off the board. We just hold it for a later date. Come June, there are several that were scheduled and pulled earlier that are back on the board. An important part of the Connection Finder is relating it to current events, and when someone as prominent as the Prince passes away, we must make changes accordingly. Trust me, you'll see your hard work come to fruition, just not according to the original timeline. We save every suggestion we get!

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All those other nominations are not discarded.  They are held over for a future date.

I say this as one of those who works really hard on finding profiles for the EPOW that may not normally be nominated.

(Example -- I recently worked really hard to get Amy Schauer Connected, but failed to do it in time for her to be considered.  But she IS now Connected -- and by two different pathways.)

Our hard work is NOT neglected, nor discarded.

edit -- aaaaaaaaaand Abby posted as I was typing!

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I understand your frustration, Stephen, but for once I'm happy about this last-minute change - I don't think it's often happened that a feature was displaced to honor the death of a non-American, and if it had not been done for Philip (who is absolutely all over the news in the non-anglophone republic I live in), then who? ... There have been several "improvised" features for notable deaths of people I had personnally never heard about, though I assume they were household names in the US.

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I agree, Isabelle.  I think the profile that Ros has put together for Prince Philip is excellent, a truly worthy EPOW.  And I understand Abby's comment on the need to reflect current events.  

But I have been trying hard to get folks on the England Project to submit more quality profiles to the Connection Finder and you get the feedback 'It'll only get bumped because some American has died.'  (I suppose this time at least it got pushed back because some Greek has died!)

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Even so, each time "it was bumped because some American had died", there were other, international profiles to feature as "supporting cast" and it's great to find good profiles in these circumstances... I mean, those profiles that were improved in preparation for a feature that was postponed may well fit a future improvised theme!

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@ Stephen -- I'll work harder on looking for England-related profiles for future EPOW selections, but my first love will always be Aussies.  (I've done a few Notables for England, but can't remember who many, if any, I have brought to an EPOW thread, sorry.)

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Melanie, the England Project is quite capable of finding an appropriate profile or two.  It is the hard work of making them exemplary that takes the time!

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Fine.  I'll stick with writing bio's for Aussies.  :)

(I am a member of the England Project.)

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Hi Melanie, just wanted to say your work in the England Project is greatly appreciated. And the England Project Leaders will always be delighted for you to collaborate on any English EPOW that you wish too :-)

Lizzie

England Project Co-Leader

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Thank you Stephen. I will speak to the other England Project leaders about options to get England Project members more involved in submitting quality profiles for the Connection Finder.

And, once again, thank you for the stellar work that you and other England Project members do to make WikiTree's English profiles the very best they can be!

Ian

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Apologies to all.

I was just frustrated that having spent a couple of days crafting Barbara Hepworth’s biography for this week’s Connection Finders and finally got it looking good, that very moment the theme was changed. But as Abby says, themes are never killed off, just pushed back. I suppose I just want everyone to know how brilliant she was!

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I wasn't too unhappy. I've done a lot of work on Sigrid Hjertén; postponement will give me time to perhaps find one or two more connection paths and bring the profiles in the current rush-job connection path up to standard. It's a most interesting kinship network, full of tempting rabbit holes. Actually worth working on even without her being featured.

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Quite right, Eva.  The postponement will give me a little more time to work on Barbara's ancestors.  It would be good to tie her into her Yorkshire roots more strongly.  My wife's family is stuffed full of Hepworths and it would be cool to find a connection.  But the surname is pretty common in God's Own County.  Here's hoping!

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Only part of the problem is acknowledged. Those of us cleaning up profiles in anticipation of suggesting them for the connection finder are also juggling other events in our lives, whilst trying to complete the profile(s) with a looming deadline. The other opportunities in our lives in hindsight get wasted, or some major organisational skill is required, because we elect to work on the profile, only to have the schedule changed 2-3 days before the deadline. It is not uncommon for obituaries in newspapers to appear 4-6 weeks after a death. In many cases we could do better justice to a profile for the newly deceased if it wasn't rammed through in a few days. Plus people are also scrambling to locate and create/refresh other profiles. Prince Philip was an exception, given his advanced age, and the MSM probably had obituaries prepared for the last 10 years.

Answer 4

I did some initial hunting for French royalty, but came up zip. Either I'm looking in the wrong places or there's not a lot of them out there just yet.

Comments

Category:French monarchs - Wikipedia

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Here's one : Konrad de Bourgogne -- has pic, is Connected, needs bio.

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Scott, I nominated Prince Hendrik (Danish consort, born French) above. 

And what about the remarkable Belgian King Boudewijn - with a little more work on his biography.

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And French royalty is all there. 

The last king: Louis-Philippe.

The last of the Bourbon branch: Charles X. To find the others, you just need to climb back with the succession boxes...

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Perhaps not for this time, but on this page we find the most recently deceased claimants of the French royal houses: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:The_Ancestry_of_Europe%27s_Royal_and_Princely_Houses:_Work_in_Progress#France

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And the List of French monarchs, which I had painstakingly put together as a quite "green" WikiTreer...

Answer 5

How about some Asians.

Bhumibol Adulyadej - King of Thailand

Hirohito 迪宮-1 - Emperor of Japan

Empress Dowager Cixi 葉赫那拉-3 -Qing dynasty regent (her profile needs some love)

Just a suggestion to maybe help gather some interest for that side of the world.

Comments

As I linked above -- Bhumibol Adulyadej

And links for the other two:

Hirohito

Empress Dowager Cixi

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If anyone is thinking of writing about the Thai royal family, please tread cautiously.  Writing anything less than adulatory is seen as lèse-majesté and is a criminal offence.  BE. VERY. CAREFUL.

Answer 6

How about Royalty from Italy and Sicily? The Bourbon kings were in Palermo and Naples, before and after Napoleon and later Victor Emannuele of Tuscany helped unite Italy in the 1860s.

I would also like to see more information about nobility of Sicily, especially the barons who colonized the interior of Sicily in the 1600s. Some were from Spain and some were Normans and even Tuscans.

Comments

Do you have specific profiles you think we might feature?

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there is see for example see Guglielmo (Altavilla) di Altavilla (abt.1131-abt.1166) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

Answer 7

There was a Quest for Great-Grandparents: Royal Edition challenge two years ago, and all but two of the people in that challenge are now connected to the main tree.

Answer 8

There are plenty of German and Medieval royals to pick from as well ... most need a lot of work. One of these might be interesting, but let us know asap so we can expand/tidy/source the profile: Holy Roman Emperors

Comments

well that list is far from complete, it has missed see Charles (Luxembourg) de Luxembourg (1316-1378) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

and not being pre 1500 can not add him

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I gave him the category and a succession box, but this profile is unfit to be featured, as it contains only a gigantic amount of copy-paste material (an heritage from the past and nothing to do with the work of the Germany project, I hasten to add).

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Thanks Isabelle! Probably none of the HREs are ready to be featured ... but they can be if we have a few days notice.

Answer 9

If you want a king that if he had not done what he did,  European history would have been different see Jan Sobieski (1629-1696) | WikiTree FREE Family Tree

Without his timely arrival at the siege of Vienna in 1683, Vienna would have fallen to  the Ottomans. He lead the greatest  cavalry  charge in History

Answer 10

Well, if you're looking for European royalty and higher nobility, you might find the following of use!  It gives a good sense of who is (and isn't) well-connected at present.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:The_Ancestry_of_Europe's_Royal_and_Princely_Houses:_Work_in_Progress

All the best,

Kelsey

Answer 11

How about Crown Princess Mary of Denmark. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mary,_Crown_Princess_of_Denmark

Comments

She's -- thankfully -- not dead.

Answer 12

Whenever I am reading about european royalty I keep coming across the name of Julia von Hauke (or Hawke).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Julia,_Princess_of_Battenberg

She married into the Battenberg family - and is thus an ancestor of Prince Philip - but is also an ancestor of the Bulgarian and Spanish royal familes as well.

Her family tree is noted on her wikipedia page.

She not of princely origin but she seems to have had a colourful life. Including being a lady in waiting for Marie of hesse who married Tsar Alexander II.

Finally found her profile - and it could be given some TLC

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Hauke-39

Just a thought!!

Answer 13

To confirm- and hopefully not a "stupid" question- we are talking strictly "Royalty", not "Nobility", correct?

   Cheers! Becky Elizabeth

Comments

Royalty and their spouses - consorts - better halves etc apparently!!

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Im a bit confuesed with my fathers DNA, apparently he has a subclade of 0 with the Duke of Edinburugh . How is that posible. I do know that my father is descended from Brian Boru the Irish King as his surname is OBrien and he traced his family to there. He also has some Danish,, German and Russian going back lord knows how long ago. My dna seems to go back to German nobility with aH3 Haplogroup, Im a bit confused as of 1500 and beyond I seem to have a lot of nobility throughout Europe (not direct)