G2G: Were poor Catholic children sent to school in Liverpool c 1812?

Question

now searching my family tree on the census for john and martha dunford children.each census stated after childs name scholar or school,

now i have had lots of people stating this must be wrong because there was no school for the poor then,well i never knew what to say ,so i have been looking into it ,and proved without a doubt that in 1812 roman catholic poor children did go to school

from liverpool merseyside times,

from oldmo251@old merseytimes.co.uk

file on catholic church schools,

st peters roman catholic church

st peters school 1817

1817 the opening of st peters school ,in seel street liverpool

the first catholic school founded in the fact the school probably transferred from a smaller school founded opposite the church in 1789,

roman catholic schools run by a charity ,examples from gores 1825

then they sent me a very long list of roman catholic schools in liverpool from gores 1825

st patricks roman catholic chuch school,

founded 17 march 1807

supported by subsee,clothing

for apprenicing ,for the poor catholic children teaching bthem various trades for the outside world

so john and martha dunford children did go to school as on the census,

just checked the source out on the internet

go to st peters roman catholic church wikipedia,

which tells all about the church and the large school it had biult in seel street liverpool which tells of the early smaller school it had in 1789

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one more thing from family search assistance

marraige of elizabeth moss to john dunford born 1812.

the death of elizabeth moss is more likely then devorce ,death was more common in those days,

and it ispossible that john dunford married ann hannah married in a parish that has been microfilmed ,the search will have to be do done manual through 1844 to 1845.marraige registers in case the marraige was missed in the indexing ,or unreadable on the original search,thank you for query it ,i thought i should tell you all i have found out ,hoping it helps

Comments

Bob,

This is a great thing to know; thanks for adding it.

It would be helpful to have more detail about the sources you looked at, so others could also take a look at those sources. For example, where did you find the St. Mary's Catholic Church records? Which census records were you looking at?

Here's more information about Sources.

(I changed link above to the profile of the family in question to help people more easily find the family you are referencing, and so that this information you found is also linked to the family in question. I also noticed that said profile (Dunford-56) was the result of many merges-- looks like you accidently created or uploaded many duplicates when you first started here; I went ahead and cleaned up the profile so you have an example of how to do it; looks like there are more duplicates to merge and clean up. -- Jillaine)

Thanks again for this interesting information.

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the "source is gores directory 1825" sent to me from liverpool mersey times who have all the records still have the email they sent me

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try the internet go to st peters roman catholic church liverpool from wikipedia

which give the history oif the church also the big school it had biult in seel street liverpool in 1807,replacing the older school lot smaller biult in 1789

Answer 1

I'm puzzled why you need to connect the censuses (1841, 1851 etc.) with the earlier period in Liverpool.

There was no earthly reason children shoould not have gone to school in the 1840s and 50s. There were lots of schools around in that period. I have several ancestors who taught in them. and many who attended them.

Comments

yes i know but was told that there was no free education until 1861,when i said on the census it states childrens name occupation school ,and was told the census must have been wrong ,so when i found the church schools who were even teaching them trades ,i realized that i was right all along ,thanks to the roman catholic churches and there charities our family went to school and earnt a living ,which now gives a better picture of our families and how they lived ,

i have written down what went on nin liverpool

the shanghire or kidnapping of men age 18 to 45 by pressgangs ,the men might have had a family ,but they would never hear of them for years this went on from 1664 to 1870,by the royal navy in liverpool andother dock yards all over england

slavery selling men at the market this went on to 1807

the fever that killed 5000 liverpool people in 1845,

these thing must have effected our families

so i was thinking when i was told there was no schooling for the poor ,i thought t what there life was like but now because of the roman catholic church and there charities they found hope ,

i see that family history are now looking into and have checked what i have said ,and i believe they agree,

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In fact Parliament first voted money for schools for the poor in 1831. There were certainly infant schools in the 1840s.

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but were they free,were they as good as the roman catholic church schools which were opened up ,in 1789,,did they teach a trade,no of course not ,all i can say is thank you roman catholic churches for all you help to the liverpool people and there children inthose dark days,

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Nothing against the RC schools, but yes, they were free. It is, perhaps, remarkable that so many poor people realised the importance of education.

Wasn't training in trades just designed to keep the poor in their place?

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i beleive it was called the factorys act in 1864,when all of the factorys and engineers got together and told parliment that the children coming to them had only limited reading and no mathatics at all they could not use them this is when the goverment started having boys teached correctly ,but it took some time for them to learn and then they were finishing school at 12 years old it was not untill 1918 that boys stayed on at school till 14 yearsof age,so the only best thing for children before 1864 was the roman catholic schools,so if you are talking about paid teachers for the poor ,there was none only the ones who taught them limited reading ,the roman cathoilc church schools changed all this with charities

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It wasn't just the Clarendon report in 1864. As I said 1831 and I think you'll find 1846 was also a milestone. There are paid teachers in schools for the poor in the 1851 census as well as dame schools.

Universal education, of course didn't arrive until the Forster Act of 1870.

However, it is certainly true that the churches provided education right back into the 18th C. and not just the Catholic one.