G2G: What this roll #1961-0004means because it belongs to my mother

+10 votes
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Recently on ancestry my moms name pulled up 1961-0004 as a roll#  we don't understand what it means and if it's Indian how do we find out more info
in Genealogy Help by

2 Answers

+3 votes
 
Best answer
I have compiled all of your and your mother's comments/questions from multiple threads. I put the information into manual family group sheets in an attempt to untangle the information and answer some of the questions.

First, there are several conflicting bits of information that have been posted. As I went through the comments, I had to cross out previous information I had written down that was posted because it was different. An example is that in various posts, your mother names the same woman as her mother, her grandmother, and her adopted grandmother.

Second, it would likely benefit your research efforts if all of the comments/questions are in the same thread. It makes it so much easier to help someone when you can scroll up and see all the information and reference the search efforts that others have offered. Otherwise, every person who wants to help is starting from scratch with information.

Third, your mother stated on another thread that she believes there is Native American ancestry in the family and believes that the number you referenced above is an Indian roll number. The number above which you asked about is NOT a Native American roll number; it references the format which the state of Texas used to record birth records. After your initial post, I was able to duplicate your research efforts and locate the record you were referencing.

Why does your mother believe there is Native American ancestry? If your mother is not certain of the identities of her biological parents, I am unclear why she believes they have Native American heritage. While there is certainly the possibility that she has a Native American in her family tree, it is imperative for you both to know that "having an Indian ancestor" is the MOST COMMON genealogy family myth. When it is true, it is nearly always much further back than people realize and the ancestor is usually only a small part Native American.

I searched the Native American rolls and could find no record of a Disheroon, Dishroon, or similarly spelled name. On all records I found for your family, they are repeatedly referenced as "white." It is important to note that in many of these documents, they weren't self-reporting the information; the record keeper would make the racial determination based on appearances. Obviously, appearances are not always what they seem, but I wanted to be sure to point this out because people often counter that fact with stating that the ancestor would have "wanted" to be recorded as white, so they would have reported that they were if they could "pass." In most cases, it wasn't up to the person, but rather to the record keeper to record someone as white, black, etc.

If your mother is curious about her biological parents, then the best approach to take is to engage in traditional paper trail genealogy research as well as DNA testing. This will also most likely help answer questions about Native American ancestry. In MOST cases of U.S. Native American heritage, if there is adequate and recent (both of those are important) Native American DNA, it will show on a test. Particularly if multiple DNA databases (more than one company and GEDmatch) are utilized. My DNA showed much more Native American than I expected, and I knew how far back it was. My point is, if the ancestor had more than a little Native American heritage and was in the last few generations, it nearly always shows in DNA. I can't speak to other lines in your tree, but there does not appear to be any Native American in your Dishroon line in the last 150 years.

There are many of us who would love to help. That is why we post in these forums. Personally, I've been volunteering in genealogy research for several years in various places. Many people would love to help the two of you, and I've seen many offers and attempts in the various threads from which I compiled the information. In order for people to help, we need to be able to understand what is being asked, what you both know, and what records you already have.

Best of luck.
by G2G-2 (2.6k points)
selected by Maggie Andersson

how would you know you didnt not now my family dont judge

The family line that you asked for assistance with is listed as white and they are not recorded on the Dawes Rolls. That is how I know. In no way did I judge you. There have been numerous Wiki-Tree members who have offered to help you and several who have. Of the ones I have spoken with, they have all found the same things I have—that the Disheroon line of your family was repeatedly recorded as white and they are not found on the Rolls.

It is extremely common for families in the US to have an oral tradition that they are part Native American—it is almost always believed to be Cherokee. Of course this is sometimes true, but the vast majority of the time, it is either not true or it is very, very far back in the family. It is possible that another of your family lines has Native American ancestry, but it does not appear to be on your Disheroon line. As has been mentioned, if you’re curious, take an autosomal DNA test. If you have recent and significant Native American ancestry, it will show on the results.

+12 votes
Was it on a record or record index? If in a record or index, then no, it has no reference at all to anything Native American. Roll # references on Ancestry almost always refer to a microfilm roll on Family Search. This is a way for you to track down the actual microfilm for more information or a copy of the record.

If you post a link to it, I or someone else here can clarify or confirm that we're talking about the same thing.
by G2G-2 (2.6k points)

I'm not sure how to research microfilms or even where to begin also why would just certain people have them in her family and why are the nums different for example her fathers is 1946 0003 and exactly whats the purpose if any. I apologize for any inconvenience but my mom does not know hardly anything of her family heritage and almost all of them have passed leaving her with a bunch of unknown wonder. Thanks in advance. Your help is greatly appreciated

If you post a link to the record, I can give you a better answer. If you don't want to post a link to your mother's record, you can skip ahead or go back a few records to one that has a similar number and post a link to that one. It's hard to answer your question specifically without seeing what you're talking about. There are a variety of reasons why people would have a different number, but it depends on what you're actually looking at. If it refers to a microfilm # as is often the case, then I can tell you how to go about accessing it, but I'd really need to see an example from the record set you're pulling up to give you more information.

Ok, I found the records you're referring to and it's just the way the state of Texas recorded births for the given year. Your grandfather was born in 1944 and Texas recorded their birth indices or indexes in cycles and it appears his was recorded in the third cycle of the year 1944. This is why your mother's is different. Everyone on the same birth index "roll" with your grandfather has the same 1944_0003 when I checked the preceding page and the page after. It shouldn't mean anything to your needs unless the state needs that when/if you order a copy of the birth certificate. In this case, it's the state of Texas's own internal bookkeeping system and doesn't refer to a microfilm roll; however, the majority of the time you see "Roll" in and Ancestry Record or index, it likely is indicating the microfilm roll number at FamilySearch, but not this time.

i need to know what does this means us indian census rolls in 1885 to 1940 i need to fine this pleas thank you who is it with i dont know

I can’t understand your question.

it on disheroon  side of the idont what on mary holcomb side i like to learn more is lucillie holcomb black burn is she mary lucillie mother  i meed to fine out nabine or mary is my real mother

Sorry, I mean this respectfully, but I can’t understand what you’re trying to say in the last comment. There’s no punctuation, but even if there had been, I can’t quite discern what you’re attempting to say.

I posted above that I found the record to which the original poster was referring. The numbers she was asking about have nothing to do with any Indian or Native American records, it’s simply how the state of Texas kept track of birth records.

I think the end of your comment is questioning who your mother might be. To answer that, you would need to do the traditional paper trail genealogy research and perhaps supplement it with some DNA tools.

An anonymous user above wrote: “i need to know what does this means us indian census rolls in 1885 to 1940 i need to fine this pleas thank you who is it with i dont know”

 

Are you asking in reference to the number that the original poster asked about? If so, it had NOTHING to do with Indian records. It was a series of numbers used to keep track of birth records in Texas.


my sis and me have the same mom and dad does that me we both have to do a dna  ny sis just did a dna  what was mary lucille holcomb mother name her dad pleas

mary lucy wing her mother annie wing

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