G2G: Who are my great grandfather’s parents?Fran

Question

My mother Sharon (Sharron) Van Siclen (Vansiclen), parents were Ruby Myrle Bailey and Ernest Van Siclen.

I am trying to figure out who Ruby Myrle Bailey’s parents, grandparents and great grandparents were. Can you please help?

Thank you,

Donnae Konz

Answer 1

Hi Donnae and welcome.

We can help you if you can give us more information such as:

Birth and death dates

Locations, of any of these events.

Also, if you begin adding your family to WikiTree you may just find some ancestors here already.

Answer 2

Hi Donna. Hopefully I've got the right set of grandparents.

Ernest Lynn van Siclen - born 20 March 1914 in Douglas, AZ - died 10 November 1961 in Los Angeles, CA

Ruby Muriel Bailey - 30 November 1915 in Middlemarch, AZ - died 6 May 1977 in Orange County, CA

Married on 31 August 1935

Ernest's parents were: George Earnest van Siclen (1869-1941) and Maud Mary Annable (1872-1940)

Ruby's parents were: Walter Lee Bailey (1888-1955) and Elese Gordon (1899-1981)

You can find Ernest on Family Search at the link below for more information and specific sources.

https://www.familysearch.org/tree/person/details/LYLL-NM6

Comments

Note that Ernest can be found on WikiTree as well.

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/VanSiclen-2

And this is Ruby:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Bailey-8248

And I believe if I'm correct this would be your mother:

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/VanSiclen-1

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If Scott has the right parents you only have to add their profile numbers to your profile and not create a new profile for each and have to merge them later.  Lucky you.

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Hi Scott, you have the correct grandparents - what I am really interested in is who are Walter Bailey's parents. His name is Walter Lee Bailey, he was born 1887 or 1888 in Texas.

Thank you kindly for your help.

Sincerely, Dolnnae

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I can't find his mother (yet), but 2 different sources show his father as Joseph "Joe" Bailey. I am hunting for a clear source that shows Joseph so that there might be a shot at backtracking from there, but with Walter being born in that weird 1888 period where it's between the 1880 and 1900 Census, sometimes it can be challenging to hunt up certain key records.

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The 1900 Census apparently shows Walter Lee Bailey was adopted by another family - the Palmers. It looks like by 1900, he was in his adopted family:

"United States Census, 1900," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:M3P3-ZVT : accessed 3 August 2021), Walter Palmer in household of Jo Palmer, Justice Precincts 2-3, Jones, Texas, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) 100, sheet 5A, family 90, NARA microfilm publication T623 (Washington, D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1972.); FHL microfilm 1,241,650.

He kept that same name "Palmer" in the 1910 Census:

"United States Census, 1910," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:MVV7-QZP : accessed 3 August 2021), Walter Lee Palmer in household of Ethen A Rose, Courtland, Cochise, Arizona, United States; citing enumeration district (ED) ED 14, sheet 16A, family 447, NARA microfilm publication T624 (Washington D.C.: National Archives and Records Administration, 1982), roll 38; FHL microfilm 1,374,051.

Then went back to "Bailey" when he got married:

"Arizona, County Marriages, 1871-1964," database with images, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:QG1X-TGV4 : 29 November 2018), Walter Lee Bailey and Elese Gordon, 1914; citing Marriage, Cochise, Cochise, Arizona Territory, United States, Arizona Department of Libraries, Archives, and Public Records, Phoenix; FHL microfilm 007541661.

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The only clue I've seen to go by would be the Census birth places of the parents. We've got (and I take 1900/1910 with a grain of salt):

Father: Not Known/Unknown/England/Texas

Mother: Not Known/Unknown/Iowa/Texas

So the interesting part is the England/Iowa...

I see his Find-A-Grave where it mentions his father was a trapper and his mother an Indian. Iowa does line up reasonably well with native Americans, and the possibility that his mother married in or around Iowa or Texas, then moved to Texas, and then died as a Bailey is something that can be researched. Likewise, a male Bailey who possibly lived in Iowa, definitely lived in Texas, probably around the Jones area, and was a trapper by profession is also researchable.

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I wonder - the name Joe Bailey came from his death certificate, and the name of his adopted father was Joe Palmer, so I'm finding even the name of his birth father highly questionable - it seems possible that the name was picked from his adopted father's first name and his birth father's last name. Might need to cast the net a little wider to find him.

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1900 "Bailey's" from England living in Texas...

James Bailey, living in Jones, Texas, occupation, Farmer, claims he's married (no wife listed), married as of 1891, claims he immigrated in 1882, 1 son listed with him born 1889.

Frederick Bailey, living in Harrison, Texas, no occupation listed, married, 3 kids living, 4 kids total, married 17 years ago - definitely not this one.

Thomas Bailey - listed as single, no children, can't be him.

John Bailey - listed as married for 20 years, can't be him.

Frank L. Bailey - listed as widowed, working as a carpenter in Harris, Texas, immigrated 1870 - he's a possibility.

George Bailey - listed as married for 9 years, working as a section farmer, in Wharton, Texas, kids age 6 and 2 - he could potentially be the father.

A few more I'll mention in the morning...

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Robert Bailey - Harris, Texas - race: Black - not a good match.

B. Bailey - Harris, Texas - race: Black - another not a good match.

I think that's it. So 3 possibilities I could find. James, Frank, and George. And that's just those who were living in Texas at the time of the 1900 Census. If we open this up to other locations, the numbers would definitely grow. Bailey isn't the most common name, but it is popular.

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Dear Scott, you are so kind to have gone through all this work. I was taking a different approach, trying to line up all male dna in hopes of backtracking into Walter Lee Bailey's parents.

I am back and will delve into your research.

Thank you so much!

Donnae