G2G: 52 Ancestors Week 43: Dig a Little Deeper

+13 votes
1.1k views

From Amy Johnson Crow:

Week 43
The theme for Week 43 is "Dig a Little Deeper." Answers don't always come easily in genealogy. This week, what is something you had to dig a little deeper than usual to find?
Anyone need a shovel? Or a backhoe?
in The Tree House by Golden Owl (1.0m points)

11 Answers

+13 votes

Hi Cousin Chris!  (10th cousin) 

In the family history it was written that my 2nd great grand mother did not speak of her child hood!  I had to "Dig a little deeper" to find out why, or what I think is the reason! 

PTSD (I think is the answer) by age 9 she had lost both grandparents and both parents from 1822-1826!surprise Then she was "bound out" as the family history says!  Evidently she had 9 siblings and the older married brothers split the little younger sibs up into their families.  She had a sister 2 years older, and I think they were separated!   I think that would classify as a pretty big reason not to speak of your childhood!  

Thanks for posting this question!

by Golden Owl (5.8m points)

Thank you for sharing this, David.  I can relate.  It was my mother who refused to talk about her childhood.  She had parents and grandparents.  It was my father who lost his mother at age 10, his father at 12 and then he lived with a spinster aunt, yet he talked up a storm about his childhood with many happy memories. But you're onto something about the sister.  The aunt took in my father's sister too so they stayed together.  Could have made the difference.

Ya know, I was tempted to go the Rafiki route with the post. Remember when he said to Simba in the Lion King? "No. Look harder." Expect a reference to that in my blog.

Really sucks about your second great-grandmother. That would mess anyone up. At least you're here, man. That and mental health care is better now than it was years ago. We know so much better now. Keep the faith, David. You rock!

@Pat and Chris:  This takes place in North Carolina.  But, wait!  Almost all of the family, except one older sister of my 2nd gg mother, Celia, appears in Indiana where her older brother and sister are getting married into the Draper family.  She also marries into the Draper family, obviously, or I would have not been born.  The 3 couples, two Draper men and 1 Draper sister are married to two Means family sisters and one older brother!  The three couples pretty much stay together and move on to Iowa! They lived in the same area as the Earp family, yes Wyatt Earp, between Des Moines and Pella, Iowa!  (Wyatt grew up around them, he was just a little kid) The families had to of known of each other by the proximity! It gets better....but I don't have time to tell you!wink


+18 votes

My great grandmother Phoebe Palestine Morris and her younger sister made the Oklahoma Land Run for the Cherokee Strip in 1893. She along with her sister made a land claim, and together with only shovels—they dug a 30 foot well for water. 

I had always heard this story, but I only truly believe it after my local library helped me dig into the Oklahoma land records that showed that the land that she and my great grandfather homesteaded was the land she claimed before their marriage. This is a photo of Phoebe about the same time as she made the land run. 

 https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Morris-15783

by Golden Owl (1.1m points)

+13 votes

Digging is an on-going process for me ever since WikiTree member Edward Maby contacted me wondering if his ancestor Isaac Van Gelder, widower could have married my 5th great grandmother Sara (Emans) Steinmets, widow in 1772.http://wikitree.com/wiki/Emans-69.  

I had the death date as around 1753 which every profile everywhere has for this woman.   Everybody copying everybody.  Edward pointed out that she was mentioned in her son George's 1772 will.  As an added bonus my 4th great grandfather Jasper Stymest was also mentioned.  

I changed Sara's death to after 1772.  Edward and I have links in the profiles of Sara and Isaac.  I'm adding the other siblings of Jasper.  It's an on-going process thanks to Edward Maby.

by Owl (279k points)

+14 votes
I thought I knew all the significant facts about my grandfather Battiscombe (known as Jack) Gunn ( Gunn-1707 ), an Egyptologist, even though he died 4 years before I was born.  I had multiple obituaries. He is mentioned extensively in the autobiographies of his sister in law Wendy Wood (Meacham-885) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wendy_Wood_(artist) ) and of his step son Pat (Spike) Hughes (Hughes-15382) ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spike_Hughes ). I had birth, death, and marriage records, as well as censuses and (ship) passenger records. I had an article from the U Penn magazine about his time as curator at the U Penn museum. I had a copy of Alan Gardiner's autobiography which also talks about his professional life. I had stories about him from both my parents, and from my grandmother.

All of these confirmed the story  that he was a Bohemian, and a confirmed atheist (though raised in a Congregationalist family). My father remembered being told, as a small boy "People don't believe in gods anymore."  In the 1930s he was actively involved in debunking the "Rosemary Case", in which Frederic H. Wood claimed that a long-dead Egyptian princess spoke, in ancient Egyptian, through "Rosemary". This form of "speaking in tongues" is known as xenoglossy.

My grandmother, Meena ( Meacham-526 ) , on the other hand, had repeated references  (in Pat's autobiography, and in her step-daughter's memoir) to involvement in Theosophy, an occult religious movement ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Theosophy ).  I was actively searching for external references to this, searching "Theosophy" in conjunction with each of her surnames (Meacham, Hughes, Gunn, Grey-Clarke).

I found NOTHING new about Meena and Theosophy.

But I found "TRANSACTIONS OF THE SECOND ANNUAL CONGRESS OF THE FEDERATION OF EUROPEAN SECTIONS OF THE THEOSOPHICAL SOCIETY HELD IN LONDON JULY 6TH, 7Th, 8TH, 9Th, AND 1OTH, 1905, London" (it doesn't seem to be online anymore), which, on page 21, has the script for "The Shrine of the Golden Hawk", written and directed by Florence Farr, with Battiscombe Gunn playing the role of "Priest of the Floods and Storms".  This clearly indicated Jack's active involvement with the Theosophical Society.

So I started digging deeper.

I found that Jack had been actively involved  with the leaders of both factions of the occult community in London at the time: Arthur Edward Waite of the magical order, the Golden Dawn, and Aleister Crowley, who created his own order, A∴A∴. Crowley based his new religion, Thelema, on the translation of the Stele of Ankh-ef-en-Khonsu, also referred to as the "Stele of Revealing".  In 1912, he arranged for a new translation, by Gunn and Gardiner (though there is no evidence that Gardiner knew of Crowley's involvement).  Jack continued to be actively in involved in the London occult movement until the First World War.

I documented all of these discoveries on Jack's Wikipedia page ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battiscombe_Gunn ).

A couple of years later, while randomly Googling, I discovered that an Egyptologist, Steve Vinson, was giving a talk on Battiscombe Gunn and Crowley, at the University of Chicago.  I contacted him, and discovered that he had started with the information in the Wikipedia article. He had initially been skeptical, but followed the references and found them credible.  He had then done a lot more research, including a lot of documents not available on line.

I attended the talk, and met Steve Vinson.  He was working on a scholarly paper about Jack and the Occult, and invited me to be a co-author, since I had done some of the "original research".

It was published in 2015 as "Studies in Esoteric Syntax: The Enigmatic Friendship of Aleister Crowley and Battiscombe Gunn" by Steve Vinson and Janet Gunn in Histories of Egyptology: Interdisciplinary Measures. New York: Routledge in Taylor Francis Group. pp. 96–112. ISBN 978-0-415-84369-0. ( https://books.google.com/books?id=9doABAAAQBAJ&pg=PA99&lpg=PA99&dq=%22Gunn%22#v=onepage&q=%22Gunn%22&f=false ), and has been used as a reference in other scholarly papers.

It all started with trying to confirm Meena's involvement in Theosophy, and dragged me deeper and deeper into the scholarly analysis of Egyptology and the Occult.
by Owl (198k points)
edited by Janet Gunn

I find it fascinating, thank you for telling this story. It is especially fun that you were invited to become the co-author of the scholarly paper, I think.

Amazing story, Janet!

+11 votes

I have had to dig pretty deep for several of my ancestors; however, James William Woods' hole seemed like it just got deeper the longer I dug.

When I started this quest in 1983, James William Woods had three living children including my maternal grandmother, Mary Woods James. I spent countless hours with her asking every question I could find or think to ask. I corresponded with her siblings, Catharine Woods Pierce and  Virgil Neff Woods I learned a lot about the family, mostly how poor they were,  the various places they lived, and the people, with whom they lived. They all said their dad was an orphan and they didn't know anything about his childhood or his family.

The U. S. 1910 census was available at the Memphis Public Library at that time, so I started there; wait, oh no, they may have lived in Illinois and that particular Soundex or microfilm may not have been available at the Memphis Library. So, based on what the children told me about their own lives I searched the 1900 census for Madison County, Tennessee, and McCracken County, Kentucky. They were located in Paducah, and he was recorded as a house painter, born Dec 1870 in Arkansas with both parents also born in Arkansas. Finally, I had a starting place- Arkansas. My grandmother and my great-aunt had recalled staying with Aunt Fannie's family near Little Rock, Arkansas and they thought she had married a Meredith or a Merritt or something similar.

Remember, there was not internet, so I was fairly dependent on the wonderful indexes and collections at the Memphis Public Library. I also traveled to the Arkansas History Commission (now known as the Arkansas State Archives). I made copies of marriage indexes for every county in a hundred-mile radius of Little Rock, Arkansas in search of Wood or Woods. I reviewed every census record I could find for James, Jim, J. W., etc, and located him in 1880 as an orphan with a Brown family from Jackson, Madison County, Tennessee. Yes, I researched them as well. Finally,  located his alleged sister, also an orphan, and low and behold, this lady had married a Merritt. I thought I had hit pay dirt, but I couldn't find any proof such as a will, guardian bonds, chancery cases, etc. I spent a lot of time at the History Commission trying to locate any record. I worked out "Aunt Fannie's Merritt" family hoping something would pan out; however, she died young, before 1920, and looking through the indexes (microfiche) at the History Commission, couldn't locate an Arkansas Death Certificate. I did finally locate her in a Cemetery Index, but of course, she didn't have any dates on her crude headstone.

I kept digging and paddling, never giving up and saving every little scrap I could find, but finally, in 2014, my mother and two of her first cousins agreed to submit ancestry autosomal DNA tests. This was the big breakthrough needed to solve the case, or was it??

It certainly narrowed down James Woods' paternal and maternal grandparents, but not his parents. I really wasn't sure if his mother was a Woods or his father was the Woods; just knew one was a Wood or Woods and the other was a Hudson.

A few years later a great-grandson submitted his Y-DNA test. We still do not know who his parents are, but we know his father is a Wood or Woods and we belong to the Wood group project in Group 12 at Family Tree DNA (FTDNA).

Based on the available information, we can speculate both of James W.'s parents died about 1872-1880 in Central Arkansas. The family didn't take in the orphaned children for whatever reason, but it was easy to identify the grandparents.

I have added Y-DNA matches as time permits and connected them to Group 12 of the Wood(s) Surname Project at FTDNA. sheet. I monitor the autosomal and Y-DNA always hoping for an improved match.

Will keep digging for James W. Woods' parents as long as I have the ability to search.

by Owl (213k points)

+11 votes
My 2nd grt- grandfathers parents on both sides are a mystery. On my mother's side, is Henry A. Redmond. I can't find him anywhere. Family history says he was born in MD, about 1817. He moved to Indiana, or ILL. He and his family are supposed to have gone to Mexico/Cuba, according to his son. Can't find them anywhere. I don't have a date, but I think it's around 1850. I can find a H.A. Redmond, in TX, however, different wife, different children. There was some kind of major disagreement in the family, in Mexico. Could the TX Redmond, be my 2nd grt-grandfather? Same name, same birthdate. His son Henry, never said. He, Henry, returned to the U.S. after 1860.

My paternal 2nd grt, grandfather, Alfred Harrison Puckett, was born in 1805, in VA. He went to medical school of some sort, maybe, Transylvania University. He lived in Missouri, St. Louis area. He married, Amy Bettis Matthews, about, 1830. They had 5 children, the youngest died in infancy. Amy died in 1842. Alfred died in 1846,in St.Louis.

It has been said that his parents were, Samuel & Mary (Watkins) Puckett. This doesn't prove true in that his mother's name was Alice Vinie Harrison. His father may have been a Samuel Puckett. However, in speaking with a descendant of said Puckett's. He said they had no "educated" ancestors. So, Grrr.

I still have unsolved issues with these two men.
by Owl (32.8k points)
edited by Janet Puckett

+10 votes
As long as my genealogy journey continues, I guess I will dig a little deeper. I chased a rabbit down a hole about a year ago and found a grandma named Frances Keye. Didn't think much about it. Last week something brought me back to digging after I read something that triggered my memory. Grandma Frances had a brother named John Ross. It seems John had a son who brings people to their feet, for over 200 years, every time his song is sang. Oh Say can you guess John Ross' son's name. Who knew!

So, after writing the above initial answer, I dug a little deeper the next day. It seems as though FS Key was a prominent attorney negotiating a hostage release at the time he wrote, "Defense of Fort M'Henry" later entitled the "Star-Spangled Banner." He also served as a member of Andrew Jackson's "Kitchen Cabinet." This makes a second, close connection linking family members to the Jackson Administration; the other connection was Duff Green. If I knew this a week ago, I would have used it for the  Friends thread.
by Owl (520k points)
edited by K Smith

+9 votes
The prompt says "something you had to dig a little deeper than usual to find"... so, that is, assuming I found something. My favorite brickwall has made me buy tons of expensive books from USA, UK, Australia (I live in Chile so any international shipping is at least double the cost of the book), I've been in the Ministry of National Defense office looking through hundreds of Army's service registers, I've requested copies of service registers from Spain, I've talked to a Museum and antiquarians in Ireland... and found almost nothing. But I've discovered some cool facts such as one ancestor marrying a russian princess, other being friends with Napoleon III, other being the aide-de-champ and close friend to O'Higgins and San Martin, the chilean and argentinean "Father of his Country" respectively, and I found who they say is the hidden granddaughter of George III of the United Kingdom. Still digging...
by Owl (137k points)

+9 votes

So after working a bit on "Polish Prussian" categories today, I thought I could try to connect a "Polish Prussian" branch to the Big Tree as well. That means I always have to dig a bit deeper because I have to click around to find a connection that stays in America.

I started with Antoni Kruszewski and his daughter Mary. Mary's husband needed a name change in the WikiTree-database. John's sister Rosie married a guy who did a name change in real life. Their son Aloysius married a woman, whose grandfather was German. Her brother was already in the database.

That makes 20+ profiles connected to the Tree.

by Golden Owl (2.0m points)

+7 votes
My maternal grandmother was orphaned at age 8. She didn't have much information about her parents. Her fraternal cousin shared genealogical information with my mother. Mom was able to share names and stories, but she didn't care about the sources.

So, it's been up to me to find the sources so I can add this part of the family into WikiTree. I just have to keep digging.
by Owl (32.5k points)

+3 votes

A Silver Thread Through The Family Tree

To “dig a little deeper” in genealogy is not merely to search for another date, another parish, or another generation. Sometimes it means following a single clue down into the ground itself, into the place where an ancestor’s work, risk, reputation, and fate were all bound together. For me, that place is Sala Silver Mine in Västmanland, Sweden, and the ancestor is my 11th great-grandfather Håkan Werme, a royal bailiff in the service of King Gustav Vasa.

The phrase is especially fitting because Sala was no ordinary hole in the earth. For more than five centuries, silver was mined there for the Swedish Crown. Production began in the late 1400s, and its great sixteenth-century flowering coincided with Sweden’s early years as an independent kingdom. At its height, the mine could produce about 4,000 kilograms of silver in a year. To Gustav Vasa, struggling to consolidate power, build a state, and fund a kingdom, Sala was not just a mine. It was a treasury.

There is personal resonance here too. Mining runs through my family in more than one century: I am a Mining Engineer, and my son is a Mining Geologist. Yet Håkan’s story reminds me that mines are not only geological places. They are human systems: dangerous workplaces, engines of royal revenue, and, in the sixteenth century, places where trust could be rewarded—or catastrophically lost.

Sala: Sweden’s Deep Treasure Chest

Sala Silver Mine began as a mining settlement near Salberget and eventually gave rise to the town of Sala. Its ore was famous for silver-bearing galena and sphalerite, and the mine later reached impressive depths, with Carl XI’s shaft recorded at 318.6 metres. Today the mine is a heritage destination, but in Håkan’s time it was part of the machinery of monarchy: silver had to be extracted, guarded, accounted for, transported, and delivered.

That administrative world is where Håkan Werme appears. He was not a miner with a pickaxe in hand, but a crown official trusted to handle the king’s interests. Genealogical sources describe him as a fogde, or bailiff, at Kronoberg’s royal estate and castle in Växjö from 1546 to 1547, and later as bailiff in Trögd from 1551 to 1556. A royal bailiff managed resources, enforced obligations, and stood close enough to power to be useful, visible, and vulnerable.

The surviving details about Håkan are fragmentary, but vivid. He was probably born around 1490, possibly in Värmland or with later ties there, and is said to have been mentioned in several letters from King Gustav Eriksson Vasa between about 1545 and 1551. That places him among the practical men Gustav relied on after breaking from the Kalmar Union, suppressing regional resistance, and turning church and local revenues into instruments of the new Swedish state.

His title is variously given as fogde, befallningsman, or kronobefallningsman: a royal steward, district administrator, tax collector, and enforcement officer. After serving at Kronoberg from 25 April 1546 to 10 April 1547, a precise span preserved in noble genealogies, he then appears in Uppland as fogde in Trögd from 1551 to 1556, with his seat covering Enköping and nearby Åsunda. Such appointments carried money, grain, labour obligations, legal responsibility, and the risk of displeasing both local people and the Crown.

Kronoberg Castle: A Test of Trust

Before Håkan’s name became linked with Sala silver, it was linked with Kronoberg Castle. Kronoberg stood on an island in Lake Helgasjön near Växjö, close to Sweden’s southern frontier with Denmark. During the Dacke War of 1542–1543, rebels under Nils Dacke seized the castle before royal control was restored. In such a place, a bailiff had to be more than an accountant. He was part steward and part enforcer.

Håkan’s service suggests he had already earned significant confidence. Gustav Vasa’s Sweden was still being made: church property had been confiscated, local resistance had to be contained, and crown officials turned royal authority into practical control. Håkan’s later responsibility for silver transports from Sala fits that pattern. The Crown gave such work to trusted men—men to hold accountable if anything went wrong.

What is most telling is that Håkan moved from a turbulent frontier castle to the king’s silver chain. Later genealogical accounts say he handled soldier-escorted transports from Sala to Uppsala. Gustav’s government depended on metal, coin, and credit, and the movement of bullion required officials who could account for every stage of the journey. Håkan’s career arc therefore suggests competence and royal confidence.

The Silver Road and the Fatal Robbery

The deeper I dig into Håkan’s life, the more the silver transport becomes the hinge of the story. In 1558, during one such journey from Sala toward Uppsala, part of the silver disappeared or was seized by robbers. The outcome was brutal: Håkan and others were tried, condemned, and beheaded in Uppsala.

The wording in the sources leaves room for interpretation. One account says a robber band succeeded in taking the transport; another says part of the silver disappeared on the road. In either version, the loss occurred within a system for which Håkan was answerable. Whether the Crown believed him negligent, complicit, or simply responsible as the officer in charge, the punishment shows how sharply royal accountability could fall on a trusted servant, then about sixty-eight years old.

No full transcript of the 1558 proceedings appears in available accounts, so the trial must be described with caution. What they agree on is the sequence: Håkan had charge of the soldier-escorted silver transport; part of the silver was lost or taken; and, at the following trial, Håkan and several others were sentenced to death.

In a sixteenth-century royal setting, this was probably not considered ordinary highway robbery. The silver belonged to the king and formed part of the Crown’s financial lifeline. A bailiff charged with guarding and accounting for that wealth could be judged for breach of trust, negligence, failed custody, or inability to explain the loss.

Uppsala also mattered. As a royal, ecclesiastical, and administrative centre, it made the punishment public. The beheading of Håkan, a senior official, warned every official, escort, clerk, and carrier in the king’s service that trust could become liability. The same confidence that placed him near the Crown’s treasure placed his life at risk when the treasure failed to arrive.

Digging Beneath the Family Name

The story might have ended there, with an ancestor remembered only for failure and a public execution. But genealogy rewards digging deeper. Håkan’s descendants moved into another kind of service: the learned and clerical world of Värmland, and later the administrative world of Stockholm and diplomacy. His son Nils Håkansson Werme, my 10th GGF, lived in Värmland. Nils’s son Paulus Nicolai Wermius, my 9th GGF, became a clergyman, serving as kaplan in Stavnäs and later as the first parish priest of Brunskog. Through Paulus came Nicolaus Pauli Brunskogius, and through him Christoffer Brunell, a Stockholm city official.

Ancient family details require care. Håkan is commonly credited with sons Nils Håkansson Werme and Jonas or Jon Håkansson Werme, while some online trees add further children, but the published noble line to Örncrona runs through Nils Håkansson to Nils Brunell, a royal administrator and diplomat ennobled as Örncrona on 21 August 1719. His brother Carl Brunell was also ennobled with the same name. The male line was short-lived: Nils Brunell died childless in Copenhagen in 1734, and the house became extinct. Still, the transformation is striking—from Håkan Werme, executed after a failed silver transport, to descendants wearing a noble name associated with crown service abroad.

Silver, Service, and Reputation

On the surface, Håkan Werme’s story is a tragic anecdote: an official, a robbery, an execution. Dig a little deeper, and it becomes a story about the rise of the Swedish state, the fiscal importance of Sala silver, the dangers of trusted service, and the ways families can recover, adapt, and rise again across generations.

The mine itself invites metaphor. Silver at Sala was often hidden within other minerals, invisible to the naked eye and extracted only through knowledge, labour, and persistence. Family history can be like that, too. The obvious vein may be one dramatic event, but the richer ore lies in context: the castle before the mine, the Crown behind the transport, the descendants after the disgrace, and the social world that made both ruin and restoration possible.

As I dug further, I found not only rock, shafts, silver, and legend, but a man whose life crossed the hard edges of royal trust. Håkan’s end was abrupt, but his descendants’ later path to the name Örncrona reminds me that an ancestor’s story is rarely confined to one moment. Sometimes the deepest discoveries are not the oldest facts, but the connections that turn scattered facts into a living inheritance.

by Owl (198k points)

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