G2G: Was John Foote-43 entitled to arms?

+7 votes
668 views

John Foote-43 has been given a Foote Family Tree coat of arms, sourced from "various Ancestry trees;" I don't believe he's entitled to one.   The below confusing comment is in John's bio; it may refer to his contemporary, Robert Foote, who is not yet on Wikitree, and who may or may not be related to him (there's speculation but  conclusive evidence that they are brothers, see prior G2G discussion here.)

I'm inclined to create a Common Errors section for the profile (!!!) and list this among other errors that have been made.  And remove the shield that was just assigned. 

Note that John's grandson Thomas Foote-1090, was in fact knighted, but his knighthood went to his son-in-law, Arthur Onslow of West Clandon; see Thomas' profile for sources.

The puzzling comment:

"The London Visitation Pedigrees 1664 (Harl. Soc. #92) show Robert Foot of Royston co. Cambs. His wife's name is not given, but his descent through his son John is traced. Arms: Quarterly: 1, Argent, a chevron sable, in the dexter point a trefoil of the second (Foot); 2, Or, a cross engrailed per pale gules and sable, in the first canton an annulet of the third (Brooke); 3. Azure, two bendlets lozengy or and gules (Motte); 4. Sable, a crescent within an orle of billets or (Motte)."

I'm not familiar with the source; I suspect the comment refers to members of the family who are ancestors of Nathaniel Foote, but without dates, it's hard to tell.  [Edit -- drat, I meant to say descendants, they could match up to some of them.  However, it's clearly not John's.]

WikiTree profile: John Foot
in Genealogy Help by Owl (39.7k points)
edited by Patricia Hawkins

Thanks, all!  I believe we have consensus.

6 Answers

+8 votes
 
Best answer

The published version of the Visitation of London 1633-5 does include the first element of this comment - Ellin da of John ffoote of Royston married Charles Harris, but I can find no trace of the rest. Since he was of Cambridgeshire/Hertfordfordshire it seems unlikely that his pedigree as described would appear there. But I also don't see the family in the Visitations of either Cambridgeshire or Hertfordshire.

by Owl (119k points)
selected by Patricia Hawkins

This John Foote of Royston is the same as John Foote, Grocer of London, Ellin was his daughter and sister of Sir Thomas Foote.

His Father was John Foote, yeoman and chandler of Royston.

+8 votes
The coat of arms was added by the same person who added the undocumented father. I think it would be appropriate to remove the coat of arms.
by Owl (241k points)

+7 votes
Not everyone understands the individual nature of the Coat of Arms, and assumes that if it says "Foote." it belongs to all Footes. They get added to Ancestry trees as decorative elements on a regular basis.
by Golden Owl (1.4m points)

+4 votes
The problem with Wiki is that it is impossible to verify actual sources with faulty information that has been accepted for decades because actual sources that clarified information were not available. There is some faulty information within some of the visitations that have greatly confused the issue of John Foote and Robert Foote of Royston. There is no Robert Foote of Royston, John Robert, Robert John or Sir Robert or Sir John of Royston. There is a John Foote, Yeoman and Chandler of Royston, He was not knighted, but it appears he did bear arms, Ar. a chevron Sa, in dexter chief a trefoil slipped Sa. He had 4 children that are known, ales or alice, elizabeth, Robert (later known as Robert Foote of Shalford, Yeoman and fishmonger), and John, grocer of London (sometimes also called John Foote of Royston). Nathaniel Foote the settler was son of Robert of Shalford, and Sir Thomas Foote, Lord mayor of London was son of John Foote Grocer of London. These facts are clear from the wills of John Foote of Royston, Robert Foote of Shalford, Elizabeth Brooke (Mother in law of Robert Foote of Shalford AND John Foote of London), John Foote of London and Margaret Brooke of London, wife of John Foote grocer of london.

The Clandon Park Collection of the national trust contains a painted copy of the Genealogy of Sir Thomas Foote that hung in his house with arms that shows the Arms displayed and quartered by his father and grandfather, although the name of the grandfather and the quartering are missing.
by Newt (510 points)
edited by Kelly Foote

+7 votes
The right to bear (a coat of) arms (an armiger) is quite independant of being knighted and called "Sir").

There are MANY amigers who are not knighted.

A knighthood is individual, and, unlike many other titles, can NOT be inherited.
by Owl (198k points)

+6 votes
For people who are interested in how heraldry works for English families, Jo Fitz has made this very helpful page. https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Space:England_Project:_Overview_of_Heraldry_and_Coats_of_Arms
by Owl (89.9k points)

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