G2G: Who are Jeanne de Valois and Willem de Avesnes? [closed]

Question

I thought "Jeanne de Valois" was the same as Jeanne de Valois and that her husband Willem was the same as Guillaume de Hainaut, but apparently, they are not - the merge was rejected because "the profiles are not open therefore less than 200 years old".

So, who are these people ?

I posted a comment on each profile to ask the manager if he has more details on them (but since he has not contributed since 2014, I'm not holding my breath).

Comments

The manager hasn't been here since 2014. Get admin to unlock them.

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Thanks. Will do.

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Profiles have been opened.

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Kathy Patterson merged Hainaut-43 and de Avesnes-64.  Afterwards, I went in and cleaned up the profile.  It could still use some work . . .

Since de Valois-199 was opened, I was able to add an estimated date of birth and adopt the profile.  The profile manager for the other profile had already approved the merge, so I was able to process the merge for 199 into Valois-6.

Darlene - Co-Leader, British Isles Royals and Aristocrats 742-1499 Project

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Thank you, Darlene.

I was working on 199 with another source, I'll let that go though, the profile is full enough as it is.

And thanks for closing the issue.

Answer 1

I've asked a cpl. different leaders to slip in and fix the privacy status on these so the merges can be completed ... Not sure how fast that will happen, so contacting admin might be a good idea.

It is my opinion that the merge being rejected because "since the profile is not open, it is by default less than 200 years old" to be lame and uncalled for, so I have reinitiated the request.

Comments

Thanks. I did file Open Profile Requests yesterday evening for both profiles.

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Daniel, I looked at the profiles, as I'm a leader.  But you will need a Wiki admin. to open the profiles.  Leaders don't have the ability to do that.  If there is no date, we can't get into it . . .  I've added the leaders and help tags to the question to get the attention of those that can assist.

Darlene - Co-Leader, British Isles Royals and Aristocrats 742-1499 Project

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Thank you Darlene

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Thank you Isabelle

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Here is the official WikiTree rule:

Open

Anyone can view the information on an Open profile, and any WikiTree member in good standing with a confirmed e-mail address who has signed the Wiki Genealogist Honor Codecan edit it. All edits are tracked, credited to the appropriate member, and can be reversed.

• Profiles of non-living people without any sensitive information or real privacy concerns should be Open.
• Profiles of people born over 150 years ago or who died over 100 years ago must be Open.

WikiTree Leaders can merge any two Open profiles. The mission of the WikiTree community is to connect modern families with ancestors on a single worldwide family tree. Merging duplicates is an important part of this.

There can be no merge until De Valois-199 is "open" since the other person is well over 150 years old.

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I think what Al is saying is that De_Valois-199 is necessarily less than 150 years old since she is not open. Therefore she does not represent the same person as Valois-6. Indeed, if there was any chance they represented the same person, the merge would have been left alone or postponed.

Otherwise, it's perfectly feasible technically to merge an Open and a Public profile together, if they represent the same person. The resulting profile is Open until one of the profile managers changes the privacy level.

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Al, a profile with no date isn't open.  That's what I mentioned above.  I can't edit a profile unless it is open/unlocked.  So either the PM or a Wiki admin. needs to enter a date, which will make it an 'open' profile (since she lived several hundred years ago).

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Al,

As I'm sure you know, when a merge is requested and the PM on one side of the merge is unresponsive (in this case the PM in question hasn't been around since 2014), it will normally take 30 days to complete it. This gives us a month to correct the privacy status on his profile. That profile has "never had b. or d. dates" and because of this, the system "gave it" the green tag by default. The green privacy tag does not automatically mean the person is less than 200 years old. In this case, it means the system assumed the person was possibly alive, since no dates were entered. My guess is that Colin never even saw this, the profile was brought in by GedCom and no changes were ever made to it.

What happens when you reject a merge, is that the 30 day clock has to be restarted. Was any research done, or did you just see the green status tag and rejected it because of that?  If I'm wrong here, I apologize, because I'm honestly not trying to be rude, just stating the facts as I see them.

 

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Another thing to note about a 'green' profile.  There are two different greens:  one green is public; the other green is open.  The difference is that you can view a public profile but can't (not even a leader) edit it; an open profile can be edited.

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You can say whatever you want but there is no indication there are the same person and their husbands are different.  The manager had the responsibility to set the privacy according to WikiTree rules and they are specific as I referenced.

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Darlene,

There is no indication that the person in question is "several hundred years old"  That is the key issue here.

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Al,

There is actually "every" indication that these are the same people, given the facts as shown (albeit meager facts on De Valois-199) ... The husbands are also the same and set for merge (same situation because of same PM), when De Avesnes-64 has it's privacy corrected, it will be merged into Hainaut-43. If you would take a moment to view [[Hainaut-43]], I believe you will see this is all kosher.

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OK, I see that I am outnumbered.  Go ahead and merge how you see fit.