John Savage
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John Savage (abt. 1403 - 1463)

Sir John Savage
Born about in Clifton, Rock Savage, Cheshire, Englandmap
Ancestors ancestors
Son of and
Brother of [half], , [half], , , , , , , , , , , , and
Husband of — married [date unknown] [location unknown]
Descendants descendants
Father of , , , , , , and
Died at about age 60 in Macclesfield Park, Cheshire, Englandmap
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Profile last modified | Created 5 Jul 2010
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The Birth Date is a rough estimate. See the text for details.
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Warning: See Research Notes (below). Some online trees have merged father & son.
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John Savage is Notable.

Contents

Biography

John Savage, Knt.[1]

Sir John Savage of Clifton was the son and heir of Sir John Savage of Clifton, by his 1st wife, Maud de Swinnerton. He was "aged 40 and more" in 1450.[2]

Before 1423 he married Eleanor Brereton, daughter of Sir William de Brereton of Brereton and his wife Anyll de Venables.[2]

They had three children:[2]

  • John, K.G.
  • Margery, married (1) Edmund Legh, (2) Thomas Leycester
  • Margaret

In 1446 he sued his elder half-brother Richard Peshale Esq, the heir of his mother.[2]

He died 29 June 1463.[2]

Research Notes

Please be careful when merging John Savage profiles. In reviewing the information in this profile after many merges, it appears that a tree in Ancestry or FamilySearch (LDS) combines father and son, and wives. The following date ranges/wives are provided to help differentiate them:

  • John Savage I of Derbyshire, and later of Clifton co Cheshire in right of his wife, Margaret Danyers, who he married around 1375.
  • Sir John Savage II, knight, of Clifton co Cheshire, married Maud Swynnerton around July 1401.
  • John Savage III (m. Eliz. Eleanor Brereton), around 1403 to 1463.
  • John Savage IV (m. 1447 Katerine Stanley), around 1422 to 1495.
  • John Savage V (m. Dorothy Vernon), around 1451 to 1492.

Some of the children attached are the result of merges, and are likely to be wrong. Research is needed to confirm which children can safely remain attached to John Savage.

Possible Daughter Dulcie

Dulcie Savage, wife of Henry Bold, is shown on WikiTree as daughter of John Savage-199, son of the John of this profile, and Katherine Stanley. In a 2022 post in soc.genealogy.medieval, Douglas Richardson suggested that her father was the John of this profile and his wife Eleanor Brereton. As Brad Verity pointed out in a response, this is a possibility but not a certainty. For full discussion, see the conversation in soc.genealogy.medieval.

Sources

  1. ↑ Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry (2011), volume III, pages 488-494 SAVAGE.
  2. ↑ 2.0 2.1 2.2 2.3 2.4 Douglas Richardson, Royal Ancestry, volume IV, pages 556-7 SAVAGE 15.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 5 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. Salt Lake City: the author, 2013. See also WikiTree's source page for Royal Ancestry.
  • Richardson, Douglas. Magna Carta Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 4 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City: the author, 2011. See also WikiTree's source page for Magna Carta Ancestry.
See also:
  • Richardson, Douglas. Plantagenet Ancestry: A Study in Colonial and Medieval Families, 3 vols, ed. Kimball G. Everingham. 2nd edition. Salt Lake City: the author, 2011 (volume 3, page 143, SAVAGE 11). See also WikiTree's source page for Plantagenet Ancestry.
  • The Paynes of Hamilton : a genealogical and biographical record by White, Augusta Francelia (Payne), New York: Tobias A. Wright, 1912. "The Paynes of England and Normandy" by Mary Lovering Holman.

Acknowledgments

Magna Carta Project

John Savage is a descendant of Magna Carta surety baron Saher de Quincy and ancestor of Gateway Ancestor John Fenwick (see his profile for the trail identified by the Magna Carta Project). As of 2 January 2021, John Fenwick was not in a badged trail, and none of the trails identified for him are currently being developed.
  • Needs Development: This profile was developed for the project in 2014 and needs to update to the project's current standards (see the project's checklist).
See Base Camp for information about Magna Carta trails. See the project's glossary for project-specific terms, such as a "badged trail".




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Images: 2
SIr John Savage III and wife Elizabeth tomb effigies
SIr John Savage III and wife Elizabeth tomb effigies
Visitation of Wiltshire 1623
Visitation of Wiltshire 1623


Comments: 18

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Lamoreaux-297 Ron Lamoreaux
In 2022, Douglas Richardson made a good case on soc.genealogy.medieval that Dulcia (Savage) Bold was most likely the daughter of this John Savage and his wife Eleanor Brereton.
posted by Ron Lamoreaux
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
Thanks. Brad Verity responded to Douglas Richardson and raised some valid points. What Richardson discovered raises the possibility that Dulcie was child of this John Savage, but I agree with Brad Verity that it remains just a possibility, no more, and that Richardson has overstated his case. I will add a research note.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Kilcullen-59 Peter Kilcullen
Although not noted as a source, a correct SAVAGE pedigree is listed in THE VISITATION OF CHESHIRE, 1580. p. 203.. This affects several SAVAGE profiles on Wikitree
posted by Peter Kilcullen
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
Thanks, Peter. Unfortunately Visitations are far from always accurate, and, even where they are accurate, their lists of children are not always complete, so it would be necessary to see if what the Visitation says can be verified from other sources, and if there is evidence for any children not listed in it.
posted by Michael Cayley
edited by Michael Cayley
Atkinson-107 John Atkinson
The beginning of the Savage genealogy on p. 203 https://archive.org/details/visitationchesh00fellgoog/page/n219/mode/1up?view=theater has a Sir John Savage of Stennesby who I think is mentioned about 1206. Then the next date is another Sir John Savage being knighted in 1415, but in those 200 years, there are only another 3 generations in between.

Having 5 generations of a family in 200 years in the medieval period would be rare, and would indicate that there must be some missing names/generations in the genealogy.

posted by John Atkinson
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
Please note that this profile is the result of multiple, not always well-judged, merges, and some children currently attached are likely to be wrong. There is a lot of muddle in old books and on the web about John Savages and their children. If anyone wishes to do some research on children, great! Otherwise, this can be looked into when the profile is overhauled for the Magna Carta Project (it is in a long queue of profiles awaiting project attention).
posted by Michael Cayley
Kathleen (Kingsley) Mclaren
Is it correct that John died the same date as his sister, Margaret? Both have a DOD of 29 Jun 1463.
posted by Kathleen (Kingsley) Mclaren
Cayley-55 Michael Cayley
Thanks for asking. Margaret's death date is not known but is thought to be after 1450. Please see the text in the biography section of her profile. I am correcting the date field for her death.
posted by Michael Cayley
Kathleen (Kingsley) Mclaren
I had seen the note that she was thought to have died after 1450 but was wondering about the specific date. Thanks for making the DOD entry match the narrative.
posted by Kathleen (Kingsley) Mclaren
Thiessen-117 Traci Thiessen
This profile is not in a Magna Carta trail that has been developed in the past or is being developed currently. However, as the profile needs to be protected against improper merges, I've requested that the England Project take over management. Until they do so, MCP will protect this profile.
posted by Traci Thiessen
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
could we retain management? I did a TON of work on the Savages, who are in the trail from Quincy to a bunch of Gateways, including - John Fenwick, who needs a trail developed. Richardson has a documented trail to him through the Savages.
  • Douglas Richardson, Magna Carta Ancestry (2011), volume III, pages 488-494 SAVAGE; page 491 SAVAGE 11; page 493 SAVAGE 11.vi. (footnote 292); volume IV, pages 296-297 WATERTON, page 296 WATERTON 12.
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
didn't read through enough... that trail continues through GARGRAVE (MCA II:242-243) & finishes at FENWICK (MCA II:148-150).

I'll put together the trail for posting to Fenwick a bit later today.

update - added the trail to Fenwick's profile & updated this profile to be a Magna Carta Project-managed profile

posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
edited by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Holland-3338 Bettye (Holland) Carroll
Richardson, Douglas. Royal Ancestry: A Study In Colonial And Medieval Families, in 5 vols. (Salt Lake City, Utah, 2013), Vol. IV. 556.

Thank you!

posted by Bettye (Holland) Carroll
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
whew. And got the kids all back to their proper parents. If Nov. 22, 1495 is correct for Elizabeth Eleanor (Brereton) Savage, then the remaining ones are all ok. Nov. 22 shows up as death date for several folks (a couple in 1495, one in 1498) - could these all be "after" the date a will was written?
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Noland-165 Liz (Noland) Shifflett
I removed the extra wives (Dorothy Vernon is his grandson's wife; Katherine Stanley is his son's).
posted by Liz (Noland) Shifflett
Arbuthnot-53 William (Arbuthnot) Arbuthnot of Kittybrewster 2nd Bt
I note that father's death was before his 4 children by Dorothy Vernon
posted by William (Arbuthnot) Arbuthnot of Kittybrewster 2nd Bt
Bigelow-823 David Bigelow
Dates don't seem to work. According to this he was only 13 years old but a father of four, and his first child was born 9 years after his death in 1472 if profile for Alice Brereton is correct?
posted by David Bigelow

Rejected matches › John Savage (aft.1375-1450) › John Savage KG KB (abt.1444-1492)

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Categories: Clifton, Cheshire | Estimated Birth Date | Magna Carta Profiles | Magna Carta Project Needs Development | Notables