G2G: Do we accept the evidence for John de Mowbray as father of Christiana (__) de Plumpton?

Question

I'm following the Magna Carta trail for my ancestor, Peter Worden. His existing profile claims descent from four of the Surety Barons: "Robert de Ros, Richard de Clare, Saher de Quincy, and William de Mowbray". (The source on his profile is garbled; fixing it is on my to-do list.)

Three trails have a weak link (?)

Three of these four trails rest upon the claim that Christian[a/e], wife of William de Plumpton, was the daughter of John de Mowbray; specifically, "John I, Lord Mowbray (b. 4 September 1286)". His descent from the Magna Carta barons, as well as from Henry II, appears to be well-proven (citing Richardson's Plantagenet Ancestry).

I don't have access to either one of Richardson's Magna Carta Ancestry or Royal Ancestry. The Magna Carta Project suggested referencing the site Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors, which uses Richardson as its primary source. Their entry for Christian Mowbray doesn't suggest any parents for her, only a mention in her bio that "She is shown as brother [sic] of John de Mowbray," which is footnoted to both Richardson volumes.

Currently on WikiTree, the source in support of her parentage is a series of undated essays: "Which John de Mowbray was the brother of Christiana de Plumpton?"

• Part 1
• Part 2
• Part 3

I don't know anything about the author, Douglas Hickling, nor about the site. I find his essays to be rich, detailed, very well-sourced, and to me, persuasive. They explain the origin of the "brother" claim (a dowry proceeding) and place it in context to make a strong argument that Lord Mowbray's family is the one she comes from. But they're not (yet?) an official approved source. Do we accept these essays and/or other sources (which ones?) as evidence of Christiana's descent from John de Mowbray and the Magna Carta barons?

(It looks to me like John de Mowbray is also descended from John de Lacy, which would give Peter Worden a total of five trails to the Magna Carta.)

Peter Worden's fourth trail looks OK so far

Peter's descent from Robert de Ros goes through Christiana's husband, William de Plumpton, and is supported by Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors with footnotes to Richardson. The de Ros trail preserves Peter's Magna Carta and Carolingian ancestries (whew!). Without de Mowbray, I think Peter loses his trail to the Plantagenets (aww!). So I do have a conflict of interest, but just a little one. :)

Thanks, aristos!

Comments

moved to "answer"

Answer 1

The 3 articles by Douglas Hickling about Christiana de Mowbray are from 2005 as per the index page http://www.medievalgenealogy.org.uk/sources/mowbray/index.shtml

This website that is owned by Chris Phillips, seems to be very reliable, has many links to good information about medieval families.  Also includes corrections and additions to the Complete Peerage and a range of other sources.

The site does point out issues with some older sources, and if the Hickling papers are published here, then I would trust that they are reliable.

Comments

The Hickling papers are very reliable and exhaustive in its argument providing a well thought out proof of why Christiana was the daughter of John de Mowbray, 2nd Baron Mowbray.

An Oxford Dictionary of National Biography article also references Christiana's father as John de Mowbray, Lord Mowbray.  The Oxford Dictionary of National Biography is highly reliable, as much so if not more than the works of American Genealogist, Douglas Richardson.

Answer 2

Comments

Interesting that you're digging into her. I was just working on her father and figuring out which children should be on his profile. I made some notes on Mowbray-54 that may be helpful.

She did appear in Richardson's earlier Magna Carta Ancestry (V3, 365, 366). She was not included in his more recent Royal Ancestry. I suspect this more recent omission is why she appears with no parents on ORTNA.

For the purposes of the project, I would suggest the de Ros line. Today it seems to be the most solid.

I would continue to research where she fits into the Mowbrays as well. Given the number of Johns, that could be the challenge Richardson is facing.

I will see if Royal Ancestry has any comment on why she was omitted.