Eleanor Fiennes daughter of Sir Knight Roger, husband of Hugh atte Fenn, mother of Margaret [closed]

+2 votes
292 views

Liz (Noland) Shifflett and I were sussing this out... (please see comment from Liz [below])

The indication of another daughter, Eleanor (b. ? - d. 1485) needs examination. She is the one who married Hugh atte Fenne of Norfolk and Suffolk, Lord of Herringby Spencers & Herringby Fenns manors (1418-1476). 

From Hugh Fenn (abt. 1418-1476) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugh_Fenn_(died_1476)

"Family and legacy: . . .He left a widow called Eleanor[12] and one child, a daughter called Margaret. She was already the wife of Sir George Nevill, heir to the 3rd Baron Bergavenny, and had the first four of their eventual eight children. His widow lived until 28 September 1485 and was buried at St Bartholomew-the-Great, Smithfield.

[12] "Some sources claim she was a daughter of Sir Roger Fiennes, Treasurer of the Household from 1439 to 1446. He+ had a brother-in-law and executor called Edmund Woodville, but it is not clear whether this was Eleanor's brother or a sister's husband."

Edmund Woodville! How is he pivotal in this?

+He? Sir Roger Fiennes?

edited - added a note (link to my comment clarifying my involvement)... Liz Shifflett.

WikiTree profile: Roger Fiennes
closed with the note: IF it's unknown, there's nothing more to be said.
in Genealogy Help by Fann Fann G2G6 Mach 4 (44.8k points)
closed by Fann Fann
So who does a man get to execute his will, if not his wife?  Her brother is blood kin to her and their daughter.  His sister's husband is no kin to any of his relatives.  I'd be inclined to bet on Eleanor being a Woodville.

There's an internet attempt to make Hugh a Fiennes, based on similarity of names.  Roger and Elizabeth used to be Hugh's parents on WikiTree.  They were taken off 3 years ago.  Making them the parents of Hugh's wife instead looks like a rescue attempt.

Easy nowadays.  Just create some circular sourcing, eg, put something on Wikipedia that says "some sources claim" and then some sources that do claim, citing Wikipedia.
Who Eleanor's parents are is important to know (for me, especially, because a whole lot changes, naturally, just by one parent vs. another, as I am sure you are aware).

I have no investment in making up anything to go any-who specific - I genuinely want to get this right. Many of my roots go very deep (on Ancestry.com, anyway), so for me, it's not about who's in the tree, it's about where it goes, so I prune out anything that is disproven. I am in the process of migrating my tree to WikiTree, which is tedious, but well worth it.

BTW: Absence of a name in a will proves nothing.  Because a child is not named, for example, is not "proof" that that child did not exist. Presence, is definitive evidence.

So, I know who Hugh atte Fenn's parents are, and his grandfather has quite the reputation. Fenn is not Fiennes... The daughter of Eleanor was Margaret Fenn; not a Fiennes, either.

Given that my Ancestry.com profile has upwards of 45,000 connections, if I can get this right, it might just affect something.

What are the possible parentage scenarios if Eleanor were a Woodville? That's quite an intriguing theory. I like the notion of working to understand what's behind wills - in the inclusive sense - even the witnesses can reveal the circles travelled and company kept.

Thanks for writing, I hope to hear more.

I added the 'euroaristo' tag to your question; that way our project members will see your question, which hopefully will then help you. . .wink

um - just saw this. Didn't know I was sussing anything with anybody.

Just to clarify... I responded "no" to the question on Roger's profile but asked what Fann Fann's source was. I just saw the response there - Wikipedia, which didn't have a good source. In fact, it pretty much discounted the idea that Roger was her father in the [footnote]:

Some sources claim she was a daughter of Sir Roger Fiennes, Treasurer of the Household from 1439 to 1446. He had a brother-in-law and executor called Edmund Woodville, but it is not clear whether this was Eleanor's brother or a sister's husband.

But that led me to Hugh's profile, where I realized that I'd already done the research a few years back & determined that the evidence left Eleanor as "Unknown".

See sources on [Hugh's profile].

Cheers, Liz

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