Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one?

Question

One of the stated goals of the Edward III Project is to develop a list of proven gateway ancestors to Edward III.  This post goes a long way towards that goal.

Below is a list of 17th century new world immigrants with a recognized descent from Edward III, king of England. The list was kindly provided by Douglas Richardson, author of the Royal Ancestry series.  Links to all of them can be found on this page.

This list currently is 70 individuals representing 55 different families. Of the 70 individuals, 32 settled in the Southern Colonies, 27 in the New England Colonies, and 11 were part of the Quaker migration to the Middle Colonies.

Use the Relationship Finder to find if you have a connection to Edward III, king of England (Plantagenet-70). Does your gateway ancestor appear below?  If not, we will work to prove or disprove your connection.

Do you have a gateway ancestor from a population group other than American colonial immigrants (e.g. Australian, South African, European, etc.)? Post them here or in a separate G2G post and we will create new categories and new lists to track them. The line must be very well documented.

The List of 17th Century New World Immigrants

Barbara Aubrey, John Barclay, John Bevan, Essex Beville, William Bladen, George & Nehemiah Blakiston, Elizabeth Bosvile, Mary Bourchier, George, Giles & Robert Brent, Stephen Bull, Charles Calvert, Edward Carleton, St. Leger Codd, Elizabeth & Thomas Coytemore, William Crymes, Humphrey Davie, Frances, Jane & Katherine Deighton, Edward Digges, Robert Drake, Rowland Ellis, John Fenwick, John Fisher, Henry Fleete, Edward Foliot, Muriel Gurdon, Elizabeth & John Harleston, Warham Horsmanden, Patrick Houston, Anne Humphrey, Mary Launce, Hannah, Samuel & Sarah Levis, Thomas Ligon, Nathaniel Littleton, Thomas Lloyd, Agnes Mackworth, Oliver Manwaring, Anne Mauleverer, Richard More, Joseph & Mary Need, John and Margaret Nelson, Philip & Thomas Nelson, Thomas Owsley, John Oxenbridge, Herbert Pelham, Robert Peyton, William & Elizabeth Pole, Henry & William Randolph, George Reade, William Rodney, Thomas Rudyard, Katherine Saint Leger, Richard Saltonstall, William Skepper, Mary Johanna Somerset, Samuel & William Torrey, Margaret Touteville, John West, Hawte Wyatt.

Some confirmed additions:

William Asfordby, Charles Barnes, Marmaduke Beckwith, William Farrar, Elizabeth Mansfield, Anne Mansfield, John Mansfield, Robert Spotswood, Robert Rose, Margaret Toshach

Comments

All three of those are gateway ancestors to medieval English ancestry.  I do not think any of them have a line to Edward III (which is what we are looking for).

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Yes. Frances Deighton is my gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great grandmother.

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Edward III is the 21th great grandfather of Rachael.

Frances Deighton is the gateway ancestor. She is my 10th great greandmother.

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My husband, [[Strutt-262|David Strutt]] is a direct descendant of Edward III, Plantagenet-70.

20. David Strutt, 19. Audrey Lett, 18. Pittman Lett, 17. Florence Gertrude Ferguson, 16. George Ferguson, 15. John Ferguson, 14. Helen Stewart 13, Robert Stewart, 12 Alexander Stewart, 11. Alexander Stewart, 10. Janet Stewart 9. Anne Campbell, 8. Colin Campbell, 7. Annas Campbell 6. Colin Campbell, 5. Mariote Stewart, 4. John Stewart, 3. Joan Beaufort 2. John Beaufort 1. John Plantagenet, 0.  Edward III. I only just discovered this so will have to to more DNA checking to prove it.

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These are coming in much faster than I can research and answer.  I hope to get to all of them. Any help appreciated.

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Anna, please post your line to the new G2G question:

Edward III Project: Gateway Ancestors - do you have one? (Round 3)

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Joe, Will a Gateway category for New France be added? As my gateway  to  Plantagenet-70 comes thru Anne Couvent.

Angela Boyer Cortner

Boyer-3525

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I think there is a legitimate issue with the connection between Francois de Joyeuse and Robert de Joyeuse.

Francois says in a 1733 notarial act that he is the son of Robert de Joyeuse, but offers no proof of it. To me that's problematic and Gagné and Laurent Kokanosky fail to provide any proof besides Francois saying it.Medieval Lands has a great explanation as to why the connection is suspicious and unsubstantiated. 

https://fmg.ac/Projects/MedLands/champorret.htm#FrancoisJoyeusedied1556B

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Thanks Darrell, the link  contains  so much interesting research on this family line.

Hoping someone has access to any missing documents that would help.

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As of now nobody talks about it, but I would love to know more and examine the records myself. Unfortunately countless times in the past people would go from embellishing their family to outright publishing connections that were fantasy. I would hate to see the Anne Couvent line be perpetually duplicated if it may not be correct at this de Joyeuse point. Unfortunately that is also the connection (Francois to supposed father Robert) that establishes her gateway ancestor status. We need some help in France to answer the nagging questions!

Darrell

Answer 1

Okay I have gone through all of the previous entries and haven't found this one

Edward III is the 17th great grandfather of Ken

1. Ken is the son of Randall Parman
2. Randall is the son of Porter Benjamin Parman [confident]
3. Porter is the son of James Wesley Parman [confident]
4. James is the son of Elijah William Parman [confident]
5. William is the son of Mary M (Woolsey) Parman [confident]
6. Mary is the daughter of Thomas Wood Woolsey Jr. [unknown confidence]
7. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Waters) Woolsey [unknown confidence]
8. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth Whitehead [unknown confidence]
9. Elizabeth is the daughter of Abigail (Stevenson) Whitehead [unknown confidence]
10. Abigail is the daughter of Edward Stevenson [unknown confidence]
11. Edward is the son of Elizabeth Neville [unknown confidence]
12. Elizabeth is the daughter of Edward Neville [unknown confidence]
13. Edward is the son of Edward Neville [unknown confidence]
14. Edward is the son of Edward Neville [unknown confidence]
15. Edward is the son of George Neville [unknown confidence]
16. George is the son of Edward (Neville) de Neville [confident]
17. Edward is the son of Joan (Beaufort) de Neville LG [confident]
18. Joan is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident]
19. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident]
<!-- it's the last --> This makes Edward III the 17th great grandfather of Ken.

Edward Stevenson (#10) appears to be the gateway ancestor, but I am having difficulty connecting him back to  Edward Stevenson and Elizabeth Neville, his parents.  I'm not even sure His parent's marriage actually existed. Help?

Ken

Comments

Actually was able to find a couple of references to Elizabeth Neville, marrying a John Bingley who was a member of parliament. Disconnected her from Edward Stevenson and created a new husband for her.  Now I'm a second cousin vs. a direct descendant.

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not sure why Stevenson had to be disconnected. i did a quick Google search & looking at dates... I think she may have married (1) grey (2) stevenson (3) bingley. I didn't delve too deep, but bingley marriage was after stevenson's death & grey died 1603 (leaving 14 years till marriage to bingley, according to info in WikiTree).

from Google search:

http://www.genealogy.com/ftm/r/e/a/Krystal-Reasor/WEBSITE-0001/UHP-0318.html

https://gw.geneanet.org/mkfarkus?lang=en&n=neville&p=elizabeth

Granted, "thepeerage.com" - citing Mosley, Charles, editor. Burke's Peerage and Baronetage, 106th edition, 2 volumes. Crans, Switzerland: Burke's Peerage (Genealogical Books) Ltd, 1999. - has only Grey & Binkley: http://www.thepeerage.com/p121.htm#i1205

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Liz,

I am not nearly as proficient at this as you are, but I could find no actual documentation of the Elizabeth Neville marriage to  Edward Stevenson, but I was able to find solid evidence of the other two marriages. That was the reason they were disconnected. I also found the...

From History of Parliament Online - (Under John Bingley) Family and Education

b. by 1572,1 2nd s. of John Bingley, shearman, of Chester. educ. G. Inn 1612.2 m. (1) Anne (bur. 17 May 1615), da. of Thomas Henshaw, Merchant Taylor of London;3 (2) c.July 1617, Elizabeth (d. aft. 1648), wid. of Sir John Grey (bur. 7 Oct. 1611) and da. of Edward Neville, 8th Lord Abergavenny.4 kntd. 10 Jan. 1618.5 d.1638.6 sig. Jo[hn] Bingley.

 I searched everywhere I could think of online, but if you feel the evidence is sound enough to add him back as a husband to Elizabeth, (or if you find other sources), let me know.  I would be more than happy to do so.

Ken

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Thank you for the additional information! I was concerned about the gap between the death of one husband/marriage to the next - 14 years an unmarried wealthy widow was not at all common. The additional info shows only 6 years (still unusual, but more believable).

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Thanks, Also just noticed that their son (https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Stevenson-1077) was born in 1608 during the time she was still married to John Grey, if the 1611 date is correct.

Ken

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that's even more telling (and also more evidence that these profiles need to be researched/developed).

Thanks again!

Answer 2

Edward III is the 19th great grandfather of Lynden

1. Edward III is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England

2. Edward II is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England

3. Edward I is the son of Henry (Plantagenet) of England

4. Henry III is the son of Isabelle (Angoulême) de Lusignan

This makes Isabelle the second great grandmother of Edward III.



1. Lynden is the daughter of Jack Edward Raber

2. Jack is the son of Lillian (Snodgrass) Raber

3. Lillian is the daughter of William Jacob Snodgrass

4. William is the son of Melissa L. Marshall

5. Melissa is the daughter of Nancy Nance

6. Nancy is the daughter of Reuben Nance

7. Reuben is the son of Ann (Eppes) Nance

8. Ann is the daughter of Llewellyn Eppes

9. Llewellyn is the son of Anne (Isham) Eppes

10. Anne is the daughter of Henry Isham Sr.

11. Henry is the son of William Isham Gent.

12. William is the son of Anne (Borlase) Isham

13. Anne is the daughter of John Borlase Esq.

14. John is the son of Parnell Baldwin

15. Pernell is the daughter of Agnes (Dormer) Baldwin

16. Agnes is the daughter of William Dormer Esq

17. William is the son of Alice (Collingridge) Dormer

18. Alice is the daughter of William Collingridge

19. William is the son of Bartholomew Collingridge

20. Bartholomew is the son of Margaret (Fitzalan) Collingridge

21. Margaret is the daughter of Richard (FitzAlan) de Arundel

22. Richard is the son of Alice (Warenne) FitzAlan

23. Alice is the daughter of William (Warenne) de Warenne

24. William is the son of Alice (Lusignan) de Warenne

25. Alice is the daughter of Isabelle (Angoulême) de Lusignan

This makes Isabelle the 23rd great grandmother of Lynden.

Comments

Lynden, can you re-run the Relationship finder and copy-paste the result in your post above.  It currently is showing in a very large font which is difficult to read.

This is a very interesting and complex line.  However, it is going to break at #17 - William Dormer is not the son of Alice Collingridge, but rather the son Geoffrey Dormer by his 1st wife Margery Unknown. (RA III:343).

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I reposted my message. However, I am very glad to have more "educated eyes" to view this line. I would rather that my line be correct rather than nonsensical. Thank you.

Answer 3

Edward III is my 20th great through Thomas Nelson. 
1. Bret is the son of [private mother] [confident] 
2. [Private] is the daughter of Arthur Saunders [confident] 
3. Arthur is the son of Harry Chester Saunders [unknown confidence] 
4. Harry is the son of Newman Saunders [unknown confidence] 
5. Newman is the son of John Pickard Saunders [unknown confidence] 
6. John is the son of Amos Nelson Saunders [unknown confidence] 
7. Amos is the son of Priscilla (Nelson) Saunders [unknown confidence] 
8. Priscilla is the daughter of Amos Nelson [unknown confidence] 
9. Amos is the son of Solomon Nelson [unknown confidence] 
10. Solomon is the son of Francis Nelson [unknown confidence] 
11. Francis is the son of Thomas Nelson [confident]

Comments

And from Thomas:
12. Thomas is the son of Dorothy (Stapleton) Nelson [confident] 
13. Dorothy is the daughter of Philip Stapleton [unknown confidence] 
14. Philip is the son of Katherine (Constable) Stapleton [unknown confidence] 
15. Katherine is the daughter of Marmaduke Constable [unknown confidence] 
16. Marmaduke is the son of Katherine (Manners) Constable [unknown confidence] 
17. Catherine is the daughter of Anne (St Leger) Manners  
18. Anne is the daughter of Anne (York) de St Leger  
19. Anne is the daughter of Richard (York) of York [confident] 
20. Richard is the son of Richard (York) of York [unknown confidence] 
21. Richard is the son of Edmund (Plantagenet) of Langley KG [unknown confidence] 
22. Edmund is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 20th great grandfather of Bret.

Answer 4

Edit:  Ew!!  I just found this page and now I feel dirty! 

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Category:Dunham_Genealogy_Fraud

Please by all means, disregard this answer.  Now I have to figure out how to disentangle myself from this mess.

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I have been curious about this Dunham line. 

1. Anne is the daughter of Patricia (Bergan) Smothers DNA confirmed
2. Patricia is the daughter of Dorothy May (Blanchard) Bergan DNA confirmed
3. Dorothy is the daughter of William Herbert Blanchard DNA confirmed
4. William is the son of William Ezra Blanchard DNA confirmed
5. William is the son of Artemitia (Blodgett) Blanchard [confident]
6. Artemitia is the daughter of Ezra Blodgett [confident]
7. Ezra is the son of Hannah (Alden) Blodgett [confident]
8. Hannah is the daughter of Daniel B Alden [unknown confidence]
9. Daniel B is the son of Hannah (Dunham) Alden [unknown confidence]
10. Hannah is the daughter of Daniel Dunham Sr [unknown confidence]
11. Daniel is the son of John Dunham Sr. [unknown confidence]
12. John is the son of Richard Dunham [unknown confidence]
13. Richard is the son of Ralph Dunham [unknown confidence]
14. Ralph is the son of John Dunham lII [unknown confidence]
15. John is the son of John Dunham II [unknown confidence]
16. John is the son of John (Donham) Dunham I [unknown confidence]
17. John is the son of Margaret Stafford [confident]
18. Margaret is the daughter of Humphrey Stafford KG [unknown confidence]
19. Humphrey is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester [unknown confidence]
20. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG [unknown confidence]
21. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [uncertain]
 

This makes Edward III the 19th great grandfather of Anne.

 

Answer 5

Well - Okay ?  Yes - Sorta ? Edward III and Barb are 6th cousins 19 times removed

Godfrey III the fifth great grandfather of Edward III.

Godfrey III the 24th great grandfather of Barb.

I do have some Plantagenets in my GX Grand line ~

Will I qualify ?  It's really fascinating to "See" that far back - I feel like a companion to The Doctor !  LOL !

Barb

Answer 6

Edward III is the 21th great grandfather of Richard

6. Mary is the daughter of Zachariah Petty Ransdell [unknown confidence] 
7. Zachariah is the son of Ann Nancy (Petty) Ransdell [confident] 
8. Ann is the daughter of Rebecca (Sims) Petty [confident] 
9. Rebecca is the daughter of Thomas M. Sims Sr. [unknown confidence] 
10. Thomas is the son of William Symes [unknown confidence] 
11. William is the son of William Symes [unknown confidence] 
12. William is the son of Thomas Horner Symes Esq. MP [unknown confidence] 
13. Thomas is the son of Amy (Horner) Symes [unknown confidence] 
14. Amy is the daughter of Amy (Popham) Horner [unknown confidence] 
15. Amy is the daughter of John Popham [unknown confidence] 
16. John is the son of Jane (Stradling) Popham [unknown confidence] 
17. Jane is the daughter of Edward Stradling [confident] 
18. Edward is the son of Thomas Stradling Esq [confident] 
19. Thomas is the son of Henry Stradling [confident] 
20. Harry is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stradling [confident] 
21. Jane is the daughter of Henry Beaufort [confident] 
22. Harry is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [unknown confidence] 
23. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 21st great grandfather of Richard.

Comments

I hate these Virginia lines as it is so difficult to find clear reliable sources.  This Symes line is very interesting and I would lean towards thinking it correct, just because of the number of relatively recent sources which include it.

It is certainly correct from EIII down to 12. Thomas Symes who married Amy Bridges.  As is almost always the case, I am unclear as to he proof that William Symes who immigrated to Virginia was his son.  I am also unsure that the next William was the son of the first William Symes.  Do you know the evidence that proves the immigrating generation?

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Funny the timing of things... I had a Yippee! moment last week while working on the profile of Jane Stradling (I had popped in to give her profile a "birthday tidy" that turned into a full re-review). Anyway, I happened to notice a footnote on one of the descendants listed in Richardson's Royal Ancestry, saying they were ancestors of George Symes. So I worked on his profile too, adding him as a Questionable Ancestor since Richardson doesn't document his full path. See https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Symes-94#Magna_Carta_Project

Answer 7

Is anyone else working on the John West line? I'm having trouble sorting out the Abel Pearson son of Thomas Pearson and Margery Ellen Smith. His daughter Sarah Pearson is the wife of John West. Her brother Abel is my direct line to Thomas and Margery. Otherwise I'm 4th cousins 21 times removed from Edward III

Comments

Katrina,

Can you provide wikitree ID numbers and links to these people?

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Sure, sorry, brain must have been out to lunch.

Smith-23181

Pearson-393 (Thomas Pearson)

Pierson-307 (Abel Pearson)

Pearson-338 (Sarah Pearson West).

I had previously posted about the mess of the kids with multiple profiles due to changes in spellings. Where I am stuck Abel (307) supposedly had a son Abel, who had a son Abel who had

John Pearson-5061 m. Elizabeth Stillwell-843

child Robert Pearson-6298 who is my 3rd great grandfather.

Thanks

Answer 8

Dighton-45 via Preston-3717

Answer 9

I'd love some solid answers (and investigation) into: Erissey-1, Grenville-170, Bohun-2, and Tucker-2248. I keep seeing them pop up all over in connecting lines of nobility (and other projects).  

Comments

The first three I believe can be traced pretty easily in English records.

The problem as always is the immigrant ancestor Henry Tucker-2248. Though I can find Robert Tucker and Susan Barlow in older secondary sources, none give any evidence to them as parents.  I believe the line needs to broken here.

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I keep seeing (the line of) Erissey-1 marked as:

"12. Robert is the son of William Tucker [unknown confidence] 
13. William is the son of Honora Erissey [uncertain] "

There seems to be a fair amount of information on Henry Tucker's page (listing where he was married, for example)- could this be a way to find his marriage papers- which may list his parents, in order to secure this line?

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I don't see any primary sources or secondary sources using primary sources on his page.  

There is the geni.com source which says he was from Kent and also born in Devonshire, neither of which match wikitree's unsubstantiated theory that he was from Wiltshire.  Then we have him being in Hampshire.  Obviously people are just pasting various men named Henry Tucker together.

There is the "Our Royal, Titled, Noble, and Commoner Ancestors & Cousins" website which is completely unsourced.

It is not good enough to just find someone named Henry Tucker and assume it is the New England immigrant.  A search of familysearch.org found 599 hits on men with this name in the approximate time period.  As far as I can tell so far, there is no actual evidence as to his actual origins, his parents, his birth, or his wife's LNAB.

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I tried digging around their links (from listed father: Tucker-2249, following that familysearch link to the wife on the file, and then getting the source they had listed there) and the only mention I found was 

https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:F83F-X92

Indexed Information

• No image available

Name	Henry Tucker
Sex	Male
Wife	Martha
Daughter	Martha Tucker

Other information in the record of Martha Tucker

from Rhode Island Births and Christenings

Name	Martha Tucker
Gender	Female
Christening Place	SOCIETY OF FRIENDS, NEWPORT, NEWPORT, RHODE ISLAND
Birth Date	14 Jul 1659
Birthplace	SOCIETY OF FRIENDS, NEWPORT, NEWPORT, RHODE ISLAND
Father's Name	Henry Tucker
Mother's Name	Martha

Citation

"Rhode Island Births and Christenings, 1600-1914," database, FamilySearch (https://familysearch.org/pal:/MM9.1.1/F83F-X92 : 10 February 2018), Henry Tucker in entry for Martha Tucker, 14 Jul 1659; citing SOCIETY OF FRIENDS, NEWPORT, NEWPORT, RHODE ISLAND, reference 2:1781JB9; FHL microfilm 22,488.

Though the parents and parents parents are connected on the familysearch site, all this (attached source; christening) showed was Henry and Martha (no LNAB) listed as parents to a Martha Tucker. It (the christening) didn't show grandparents of Martha (or Parents of Henry Tucker, or his wife Martha). I don't know how to access those microfilms- but maybe if someone (that did know how) could see the actual microfilm, then it may show a link (or prove a disconnect via misinformation?). 

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Yes, all these records prove was that her name was Martha.

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I added a comment on their page, there is a source book for Tucker lineage. Hopefully it can clear up that branch, and their links.  

Genealogy of the Tucker family : from various authentic sources ...
by Tucker, Ephraim, b. 1821

Publication date 1895
Topics Tucker family
Publisher [Worcester, Mass. : Press of F. S. Blancard & Co.]
Collection bostonpubliclibrary; americana
Digitizing sponsor Boston Public Library
Contributor Boston Public Library
Language English

https://archive.org/details/genealogyoftucke00tuck_0

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Okay, now we are getting somewhere definitive.  This book is clearly the source of the wide-spread error.  

The identification of the immigrant Henry Tucker as being the same as the Henry Tucker from the Visitations was made by Ephraim Tucker on page 298.

• Tucker, Ephraim.  Genealogy of the Tucker Family, (1895): page 298.

However, this has been more recently shown to be incorrect.  Henry Tucker, son of Robert Tucker and Susan Barlowe, never left England.  He matriculated at Oxford College in 1640, and had a son Henry who matriculated there in 1671.

• Tucker, Robert Dennard.  The Descendants of Robert Tucker of Throwleigh, Devon, (1991): page 9. 

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That took some searching. I really hope this does clear up that line, and point people in the correct direction. Quite a line to meander. Hope it helped.

Are there any other sources (besides Robert Dennard) that can prove that Henry Tucker, son of Robert Tucker and Susan Barlowe, never left England.  He matriculated at Oxford College in 1640, and had a son Henry who matriculated there in 1671?

Answer 10

Yes, I have two. On my mothers side: Thomas Owsley [Owsley-29] and on my fathers side William Poole(Pole) [Poole-118]. Thanks for the list.

Answer 11

Here's what I got when I ran it through. I have no idea if it is legit:

1. Chris is the son of [private mother] [confident] 
2. [Private] is the daughter of Natalie Felker [confident] 
3. Natalie is the daughter of Austin Wilfred Felker [confident] 
4. Austin is the son of Gertrude Frances Stevens [confident] 
5. Gertrude is the daughter of Evaline Augusta Fisher [confident] 
6. Evaline is the daughter of Frances Miranda (Frothingham) Fisher [confident] 
7. Frances is the daughter of Richard S. Frothingham [confident] 
8. Richard is the son of James Frothingham [unknown confidence] 
9. James is the son of Huldah Sprague [confident] 
10. Huldah is the daughter of Richard Sprague [unknown confidence] 
11. Richard is the son of Samuel Sprague Jr [unknown confidence] 
12. Samuel is the son of Rebecca (Crawford) Brown [confident] 

Comments

13. Rebecca is the daughter of John Crawford [confident] 
14. John is the son of Margaret (Blair) Crawford [confident] 
15. Margaret is the daughter of Isabel (Boyd) Campbell [confident] 
16. Isabel is the daughter of Thomas Boyd [unknown confidence] 
17. Thomas is the son of Margaret Mariot (Colquhoun) Boyd [unknown confidence] 
18. Margaret is the daughter of George Colquhoun [unknown confidence] 
19. George is the son of Catherine Stewart [unknown confidence] 
20. Catherine is the daughter of Elizabeth (Hamilton) Stuart [unknown confidence] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Mary (Stewart) Hamilton [unknown confidence] 
22. Mary is the daughter of James II Stewart [unknown confidence] 
23. James II is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 
24. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 
25. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
26. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Any assistance would be great. Who would the gateway be here? This would make him my 24th great grandfather. Is this legit?

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By this line, https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Crawford-451 would be the gateway ancestor.

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Looks like he needs to be separated into at least 3 people.

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And his wives need to be merged.

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It's easy to see from the profile itself that the line needs to be broken at the immigrant and the wives fixed.

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So, I found another messed up tree? Why am I not surprised?

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Rebecca's father

https://worldconnect.rootsweb.ancestry.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=sadlerak&id=I18256

Baronet's father

https://archive.org/stream/cu31924092524382#page/n368/

Virginia immigrant (unsourced)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Crawford_(colonel)

https://captainjamesdavisgenealogy.wordpress.com/2013/02/02/crawford-family-history-part-1/

 

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Geni has Rebecca Crawford connected to John Crawford of Boston. That makes MUCH more sense don't you think? That would be the man in the Rootsweb link. Does John Crawford of Boston have a profile here? We can fix it up in that case.

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There's this

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Crawford-6307

But he too has started to become an interstate traveler.  And he's got a daughter cloned off from his widow.

 

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Right. Little confusing isn't it?

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Not inherently confusing.

What seems to have happened is that descendants of two different immigrants have both gone looking for fake origins and both picked on the same Scotsman.

This only works as long as the stories are kept separate.

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So, what are we gonna do?

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I'm now thinking there are only 2 John Crawfords here.  I'm not persuaded that Colonel David took his father John to Virginia.  I guess that bit was only put in because otherwise the attempt to attach David to the Kilbirnie Crawfords would look a bit naked.

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I suppose so. Do you think there's a Crawford genealogy book or some records which might explain this guy's origins?

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George Crawfurd was a genealogist.  He runs through the Kilbirnie branch here

https://books.google.com/books?id=bpnmAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA122

Says the Baronet's father died in 1622.

The immigrants were probably from England.  Scots weren't invited to the Colonial parties then.

 

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Hmm. A lot to think about. Hope it gets sorted, soon!

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On the other hand, there's nothing to say the Virginia immigrant(s) arrived in 1643. There seems to be no record before 1667.

Old book:

https://hdl.handle.net/2027/wu.89082417247?urlappend=%3Bseq=50

So now we have the source - family tradition.

 

 

Answer 12

Edward III is the 19th great grandfather of Stuart

1. Stuart is the son of Harold Robert Ward 
2. Hal is the son of Parlee Hector Ward 
3. Parlee is the son of Sarah Anne McKinnon 
4. Sarah is the daughter of Hector McKinnon 
5. Hector is the son of Ann MacLean 
6. Ann is the daughter of Malcom MacLean 
7. Malcom is the son of Alexander MacLean 
8. Alexander is the son of John MacLean 
9. John is the son of Lachlan MacLean 
10. Lachlan is the son of Hector (MacLean) MacLean of Muck 
11. Hector is the son of Lachlan MacLean 
12. Lachlan is the son of Marion Maclean 
13. Marion is the daughter of Janet Campbell 
14. Janet is the daughter of Archibald (Campbell) Earl of Argyll 4th 
15. Archibald is the son of Jean (Gordon) Stewart 
16. Jean is the daughter of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon 
17. Janet is the daughter of John Stewart 
18. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart 
19. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG 
20. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG 
21. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 
This makes Edward III the 19th great grandfather of Stuart.

 

The gateway ancestor is 8. Alexander, or more precisely, 5 of his children.

"Alexander, a great grandson of Hector MacLean, the first MacLean Laird of the Isle of Muck, married Eunice MacKinnon by whom he had six children, namely: Lauchlin, Donald, Malcolm, Christy, Mary and Catherine, all of whom, except Catherine, emigrated to Cape Breton in 1826."

 

Answer 13

I have two: William Randolph (VA), John Munro (VA)

Answer 14

I am a descendant through Thomas Stackhouse (1661-1744) listed as Stackhouse-63.  He is not on the list.  He was a Quaker that came over from England in 1682.

Also, he is a known direct ancestor of both Presidents George H.W. Bush and George W. Bush.  I have seen comments in a number of places saying both Presidents Bush are descended from Charlemagne through the Stackhouse line (but I've never looked for actual verification).  Knowing that might make researching and verifying this a little easier.

Comments

That claim is made on Geni

https://www.geni.com/people/Thomas-Lamb-Jr/6000000000757984786

Reitwiesner gives Bush's descent from Thomas Stackhouse here

http://www.wargs.com/political/bush.html

apparently citing GBR.  Stackhouse is 1392, but there's nothing beyond him except his father.

The RF line on WikiTree

https://www.wikitree.com/index.php?title=Special:Relationship&action=calculate&person1_name=Stackhouse-63&person2_name=Plantagenet-70&gen=30

has a bad case of Suggestions at Janet Clavering, but we do show an alternative line through the mothers at the bottom edge

https://www.wikitree.com/genealogy/Carr-Family-Tree-980

Answer 15

Cool. He's my "21th great grandfather," lol. Apparently we need to teach the Wiki-computers some grammar rules. 

Apparently the connecting person between the New World and England is Lawton-10 

I don't see any of the names in my family tree that match any given in this list of New World immigrants.

According to Lawton's profile, "Thomas Lawton migrated to New England during the Puritan Great Migration (1620-1640)."

Comments

Funny, I first read this as "get-away" ancestor, and I thought, "Gosh, what did Edward III do that his ancestors had to all escape the wrath of England??"" So I read up on his life in Wikipedia and didn't see anything there, then started reading this more slowly and realized my error.

Gateway ancestors are exciting discoveries. The first connection I found between my two parents as distant relatives was via Gateway ancestors. They both had connections to King David of Scotland and the Capetian Kings of France.

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Hmm, being your cousin and not finding a relationship to Edward myself, I'm guessing your relationship is on your mother's side?

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No, it's through the Eggleston-Mosher connection

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Then it should have come up for me, too. That's weird.

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Just emailed you a pic of the tree. Make sure you do the second option to search back 30 generations

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Got it! Offhand I'm not noticing anyone on their gateway list on here. Who immigrated? Are they on the list, or do we need to apply for them?

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Edward III is the 19th great grandfather of Gerald.

Gateway Ancestors:

I found many that were cousins. The following three are the ones I found with a direct line:

Magna Carta Surety Barons Descendant Audrey (Booth) Lytton (abt. 1482 - 1519) https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Booth-124Audrey is the 11th great grandmother of Gerald

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Littleton-57 Edward is the 11th great grandfather of Gerald

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Lloyd-177 Thomas is the 9th great grandfather of Gerald

https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Plantagenet-70 Edward III is the 19th great grandfather of Gerald.

Answer 16

Edward III is the 24th great grandfather of Stuart (Uncertain)

1. Stuart is the son of Harold Robert Ward 
2. Hal is the son of Parlee Hector Ward  
3. Parlee is the son of Amos Hector Ward 
4. Amos is the son of Thompson Maxwell Ward 
5. Maxwell is the son of Dorothy Maxwell
6. Dolly is the daughter of Nancy (Tower) Maxwell 
7. Nancy is the daughter of Judith Briggs 
8. Judith is the daughter of Nathaniel Briggs 
9. Nathaniel is the son of William Briggs 2nd 
10. William is the son of Sarah (Macomber) Briggs 
11. Sarah is the daughter of William Macomber 
12. William is the son of Edith (Locke) Macomber 
13. Edith is the daughter of Edith (Talbot) Locke 
14. Edith is the daughter of Alice (Henning) Talbot 
15. Alice is the daughter of John Henning Esq. 
16. John is the son of Ursula (Achyn) Henning  
17. Ursula is the daughter of Ursula Fulford  
18. Ursula is the daughter of Thomas Fulford 
19. Thomas is the son of John Fulford 
20. John is the son of Dorothy (Bourchier) Fulford 
21. Dorothy is the daughter of John Bourchier 
22. John is the son of Fulke Bourchier 
23. Fulke is the son of William Bourchier 
24. William is the son of Anne (Plantagenet) of Gloucester 
25. Anne is the daughter of Thomas (Plantagenet) of Woodstock KG 
26. Thomas is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England 
This makes Edward III the 24th great grandfather of Stuart.

Comments

Here's another line through Scotland to Nova Scotia.  

Edward III is the 16th great grandfather of Sarah

1. Sarah is the daughter of Hector McKinnon [unknown confidence] 
2. Hector is the son of Ann MacLean [unknown confidence] 
3. Ann is the daughter of Malcom MacLean [unknown confidence] 
4. Malcom is the son of Alexander MacLean [unknown confidence] 
5. Alexander is the son of John MacLean [unknown confidence] 
6. John is the son of Lachlan MacLean [unknown confidence] 
7. Lachlan is the son of Hector (MacLean) MacLean of Muck [unknown confidence] 
8. Hector is the son of Lachlan MacLean [unknown confidence] 
9. Lachlan is the son of Marion Maclean [unknown confidence] 
10. Marion is the daughter of Janet Campbell [unknown confidence] 
11. Janet is the daughter of Archibald (Campbell) Earl of Argyll 4th [unknown confidence] 
12. Archibald is the son of Jean (Gordon) Stewart [unknown confidence] 
13. Jean is the daughter of Joanna (Stewart) Gordon [confident] 
14. Janet is the daughter of John Stewart [unknown confidence] 
15. John is the son of Joan (Beaufort) Stewart [confident] 
16. Joan is the daughter of John Beaufort KG [confident] 
17. John is the son of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
18. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 
This makes Edward III the 16th great grandfather of Sarah.

 

Answer 17

Plantagenet-70 and (Boyer-3525)
 Edward III is my 7th cousin 18 generations removed. We are descendants of Beaudoin IV (Hainault) Hainaut who is Edward III' 6th Great-grandfather and my 24th Great-Grandfather. The Gateway descendant is Fil du Roi Julienne-Anne Dumont-16

Answer 18

Joe, this came up on my news feed, but I notice that its an older post.  Is the project still interested?  I have a connection to Richard More on my father's side, but on my mother's side I find one that does not appear on your list.  

John Read comes up as a gateway ancestor (Read-42).

Answer 19

Posted by Miranda Cartier:

10. Mary is the daughter of Sarah (Baker) Wilson [unknown confidence] 
11. Sarah is the daughter of Henry Baker [unknown confidence] 
12. Henry is the son of Mary (Radcliffe) Bowker [confident] 
13. Mary is the daughter of Robert Radcliffe [unknown confidence] 
14. Robert is the son of James Radcliffe [unknown confidence] 
15. James is the son of John Radcliffe [unknown confidence] 
16. John is the son of Alice (Dudley) Radcliffe [unknown confidence] 
17. Alice is the daughter of Matilda (Clifford) Sutton [unknown confidence] 
18. Maud is the daughter of Thomas Clifford [confident] 
19. Thomas is the son of Elizabeth (Percy) Neville [confident] 
20. Elizabeth is the daughter of Elizabeth (Mortimer) Camoys [confident] 
21. Elizabeth is the daughter of Philippa (Plantagenet) Mortimer [confident] 
22. Philippa is the daughter of Lionel (Plantagenet) of Antwerp KG [confident] 
23. Lionel is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

Comments

The early parts of this line are unproven.  We need to do more research.

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Reminded me to look at the notes we made here: https://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Project:Lionel_of_Antwerp_descendants#Thomas_Clifford

At the time I wrote... "[[Dudley-469|Alice Dudley]], m John Radcliffe, knt. [http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-2055-1/dissemination/pdf/Article_Level_Pdf/tcwaas/001/1888/vol9/tcwaas_001_1888_vol9_0025.pdf CWAAS article] says he was of Derwentwater and transcribes her 1554 will. A more complete account is in [http://archaeologydataservice.ac.uk/archiveDS/archiveDownload?t=arch-2055-1/dissemination/pdf/Article_Level_Pdf/tcwaas/002/1904/vol4/tcwaas_002_1904_vol4_0026.pdf this CWAAS article]. It seems she had no children."

I hope those two articles help.

Answer 20

It looks like my gateway ancestor is Cannon-1068.

Comments

1. James is the son of William Cannon [unknown confidence] 
2. William is the son of Thomas Oliver Cannon [unknown confidence] 
3. Thomas is the son of Edward Cannon [unknown confidence] 
4. Edward is the son of John Cannon [unknown confidence] 
5. John is the son of John Cannon [unknown confidence] 
6. John is the son of Alice White [unknown confidence] 
7. Alice is the daughter of Mildred (Weston) White [unknown confidence] 
8. Mildred is the daughter of Cecilia (Neville) Weston [uncertain] 
9. Cecilia is the daughter of Ralph Neville [confident] 
10. Ralph is the son of Ralph Neville KB [confident] 
11. Ralph is the son of Anne (Holland) Douglas [confident] 
12. Anne is the daughter of John (Holland) de Holland [confident] 
13. John is the son of Elizabeth (Lancaster) Holand LG [confident] 
14. Elizabeth is the daughter of John (Plantagenet) of Gaunt KG [confident] 
15. John is the son of Edward (Plantagenet) of England [confident] 

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I would tend to doubt the entire Cannon part of the line, though I haven't had the chance to research it.  It appears unsourced, and the use of middle names in this time period is simply a marker of bad genealogy.  Do you have any sources to support the Cannon part of the line?

The section from Alice White on is very interesting and very controversial.  The question is Cecilia Weston the daughter of Ralph Neville?  I personally believe it; Douglas Richardson has refused to accept it.  Here is one thread where it was discussed on soc.genealogy.medieval.  There are others.  If you read through that I think you will see the issue is quite complicated.

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What I find odd about Cecilia Weston was all her supposed descendants all apparently knew the story even though even as a natural daughter she doesn't appear a good match for John Weston. But if they were ok with it I guess we have to accept it...

The Cannon family has a 'moving around' problem - Hertfordshire, Isle of Man, Middlesex, migrates to Virginia, Hampshire migrates to Maryland.  Seems like a lot of guessing...

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The problem person is the William, Herefordshire (which doesn't appear to be a real place;Rose-Troup cites a will that says Long "Grendon"(aka Crendon), Bucks) Cannon was named Thomas, not William Thomas, and didn't have a child named John Cannon born on the Isle of Man. I disconnected them.

"To sister Alice, wife of Thomas Canon of Long Grendon and her children James, Elizabeth, Phillis and Jane".

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This is all much farther back than I've worked. I'm still trying to solve a brick wall at Hankins-1129....

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So I still have one. This time it looks like Graves-105.

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That cannon connection seems to be back. I didn't do it.