Did Isabel (Beauchamp-127) marry John (Clinton-218)?

+8 votes
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Did Isabel (Beauchamp-127) married John (Clinton-218)?  

 Isabel (Beauchamp) de Beauchamp — married 1326 in Warwick, Warwickshire, , England
Thank you for your help! :-) 

WikiTree profile: Isabel de Beauchamp
asked in Genealogy Help by Anonymous Carroll G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
retagged by Liz Shifflett

5 Answers

+4 votes
 
Best answer

Guy de Beauchamp died in 1316 and his will is on page 53-54 and names two daughters, Maud and Elizabeth, and two sons Thomas and John, so she was dead before 1316. The author also mentions in a footnote that the pedigree in "Dugdale" has 5 daughters - I didn't have luck finding that specific Dugdale volume online, but this one by Carthew (p. 92)  has Isabel m. someone with the last name Clinton, no first name. The pedigree would have said his title, so she married a Clinton who wasn't Lord Clinton, and she died before age 13 if the birth date is correct. Hope this helps!

answered by Kirk Hess G2G6 Mach 4 (49.9k points)
selected by Liz Shifflett

Dugdale pedigree here

https://archive.org/stream/antiquitiesofwar00dugd#page/310/mode/2up

but nothing to add.

 

 

+3 votes
I have had a quick look at the Bio, and it states "Isabel, wife of John de Clinton"  so I presume he must have done.

P.S. this is the first try at helping someone, so please excuse me if I have it wrong.

 

Anne
answered by Anne Kenyon G2G4 (4.3k points)
+4 votes
I think this isn't an easy question to answer.  Douglas Richardson seems to be the source for this marriage, but again I'd be interested to know what sources he is using?

The other issue is whether the John de Clinton is the same as John de Clinton, 2nd Baron Clinton (this is Clinton-218 currently her husband in Wikitree).

The Complete Peerage, 2nd ed. Vol 3. p. 313-314 has his only wife as Margery Corbet, married before 24 February 1328/29, who survived him.  Admittedly this volume was published in 1913 and other evidence may have been discovered since then, though I can't see any discussion on the Gen-Medieval discussion group?
answered by John Atkinson G2G6 Pilot (329k points)
+2 votes

Yes. Royal Ancestry, Vol. II page 263, under CLINTON, shows John de Clinton, Knt., 2nd Lord clinton, married before 7 April 1325 MARGERY CORBET with no mention of a second wife.
Thought to look under Beauchamp, there it is. Royal Ancestry Vol. I, page 288. Guy De Beauchamp, Knt., Guy married (2nd) shortly before 28 Feb. 1309/10 Alice de Tony, They had two sons, Thomas, John, and five daughters Maud, Emma, Isabel (wife of John de Clinton), Elizabeth, and Lucy.

Thank you all for the look-ups, and comments! Very much appreciated!
:-)         

answered by Anonymous Carroll G2G6 Mach 4 (43.6k points)
+3 votes
So sorry - I just discovered part of the problem. Guy's profile ( http://www.wikitree.com/wiki/Beauchamp-75 ) had the Magna Carta badge and he shouldn't have. I have re-hidden the Magna Carta project template and descendant categories.

A reminder to both project members and non-project members. The Magna Carta badge (template) should only be added live to a profile by the Magna Carta project member who reviewed the trail. See Base Camp for a list of trails that have been reviewed & those still awaiting review. We need more reviewers - and you have to have developed a trail that was successfully reviewed/approved before you can be a reviewer. See the project page for more info.

The descendant categories (see the index here) should only be applied to a profile that is in a reviewed/approved trail to that surety baron.

If you have questions about hidden text you find in a profile, please post a comment to Base Camp instead of editing it or unhiding it (hidden text is between <!-- and --> tags; deleting the tags makes it live & adds the Magna Carta badge to the profile and the profile to whatever descendant categories had been hidden - doing so before it's been reviewed/approved causes the confusion seen in this discussion).

Thanks!
answered by Liz Shifflett G2G6 Pilot (315k points)
I'm currently reviewing a line that includes this profile and I couldn't determine what the consensus was on Isabel being attached as a wife. I understand she married a John Clinton--but is it this John Clinton? (Clinton-218)
Jayme - I couldn't find in the fine print of either Magna Carta Ancestry or Royal Ancestry what source Richardson might have used to say that Isabel de Beauchamp, daughter of Guy & Alice, married John de Clinton. Kirk's answer above notes that she was not in Guy's 1316 will. And Alice wasn't widowed (according to Richardson) until 1307, which means Isabel, dau of Guy & Alice, would have been born between 1307 and 1316 & died before 1316. With these dates, I'm guessing Richrdson's source may have been a marriage contract. Even if it is the right John de Clinton, it would not appear the marriage was consummated or had issue (not with Isabel dead by 1316 at an age no greater than 9).

Cheers, Liz
I've added a note to Isabel's profile about birth/death dates & the surmise that the John Clinton she married was not titled... I also removed her as spouse of Sir John Clinton (Clinton-218). WikiTree had their marriage in 1326, but she's presumed dead before 1316 because she is not named in her father's 1316 will. This also removes the conflict of John marrying Margaret Corbet in 1325 & having seven children by her before he died in 1335.
Thank you! That was the same conclusion I was coming too since Kirk's answer had lined up the most with what I had found, but I didn't want to start detaching without more confirmation.

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