Birth of the USA, and Virginia, USA

Question

Over the last year, I have occasionally run into the notion that the dates to be used for when to put “United States of America” after a state’s name was the date the state ratified the United States Constitution.  Most recently, Liz Shifflett, leader of the Virginia Project, was stating that the official stance of wikitree was that Virginia was to be the Colony of Virginia up until 25 June 1788.

It is my contention that these dates are absolutely and clearly wrong.  They are not historically accepted and not historically accurate.  It is inexplicable to me that I even need to make a defense for the birth date of the USA.  Liz has given her reasons for these dates and suggested that I start my own G2G thread to give my reasoning (again).  So here it is.

Basically, the USA existed as a separate nation from the day they declared their independence from England.  The thirteen original colonies, including Virginia, were of course part of this new nation.  The "United States of America" was not a simple turn of phrase, but it was a functioning nation with three distinct forms of government in its early founding - the Continental Congress from 4 July 1776 to 1 March 1781, the Confederation Congress (created by the Articles of Confederation) from 1 March 1781 to 4 March 1789, and the Congress of the United States (created by the Constitution of the United States) from 4 March 1789 until present.

So, my reasons why 4 July 1776 (and not 25 June 1788) is the correct date to start using Virginia, USA:

Birth date of the USA:  The birth date of the United States of America is held to be 4 July 1776 – the date on the Declaration of Independence.  Jefferson used the phrase United States of America in the Declaration of Independence.  In 1976, we celebrated the two hundredth anniversary of the birth of our country with tremendous fanfare – we did nothing in 1988.  Certainly, we did not have the same form of Constitutional democracy which we have today before 1789, but that does mean Constitution Day is the birth of the United States of America. The USA came into existence in 1776, Virginia was part of it, and all 13 of the original states need to use this date for when to start adding USA after the state name.

Formation of a National Government:  From the moment the Continental Congress declared its independence from England, it was empowered and began acting as a national government.  The Continental Congress had the power to raise a national army, to declare war, to regulate commerce between states, to negotiate with foreign governments, to enter into treaties with foreign governments, to raise funds, etc.  The source of these powers was unclear, and really came from a common consent of the states and the people.  The Continental Congress immediately began drafting a constitution where the powers of the national government would be enumerated by the Articles of Confederation.  Still, a national government had begun functioning on 4 July 1776 with all 13 states (including Virginia) part of the new nation.

Official adoption of the name 1:  There were times in the first couple months of the new nation where the term United States was used, and there were times where the term United Colonies was used.  To make this clear, the Continental Congress declared on 9 September 1776 that the official name of the country was to be the United States and “That in all continental commissions, and other instruments, where, heretofore, the words ‘United Colonies’ have been used, the stile be altered for the future to the ‘United States.’”

Recognition by Foreign Governments:  A key tenet of national sovereignty is the recognition of other countries.  In 1777, Morocco became the first foreign country to recognize the USA as a separate nation, and most importantly France also did so later that year.   In 1778, a treaty of alliance was signed between France and “The United States of America”.  The USA existed as a sovereign nation long before 1788.

Articles of Confederation:  Even before declaring independence, the Continental Congress formed a committee to draft a constitution for the new nation.  This constitution was presented in the form of the Articles of Confederation and adopted by Congress on 15 November 1777.  Even in its unratified state from 1777-1781 the Articles of Confederation allowed the Continental Congress to conduct war versus Great Britain, conduct diplomacy with European powers as a single nation, deal with issues of borders, land expansion, Native American relations, etc.  The articles were not completely ratified until 1781, but they certainly formed a formal system of national government for The United States of America, before it was later replaced by the Constitution of the United States in 1789. 

Official adoption of the name 2:  Article 1 of the Articles of Confederation states directly that the name of the country shall be The United States of America.  There is no way that it can be argued that Virginia was not part of the USA from 1776 to 1789.

Treaty of Paris:  The American Revolutionary War officially ended with the Treaty of Paris on 3 September 1783.  In the treaty, Great Britain formally recognized the “United States of America” as an independent nation.  Was Virginia not part of this nation?

Constitution of the United States:  Recognizing that the national government formed by the Articles of Confederation was too weak, the Confederation Congress in 1787 proposed writing a new Constitution of the United States.  It was decided that this new Constitution would become the law of the land if 9 of the 13 states ratified it.  This happened when New Hampshire became the ninth state to ratify it on 21 June 1788.  On 4 March 1789, the Congress of the United States officially took over from the Confederation Congress.  No new nation was created with the adoption of the Constitution, just a new form of government became the law of the land for the USA.

Why 25 June 1788 is wrong:  This is the date that Virginia voted to ratify the Constitution of the United States.  It is not the date that Virginia voted to join the Union – they were already a part of it.  It is not the date that the Constitution was officially ratified – that happened with the New Hampshire vote.  In fact, if Virginia had voted NO on 25 June 1788, it still would have been a state of the Union bound by the laws established by the Constitution.  It is not the date the Constitution went into effect – that didn’t happen until 4 March 1789.  The 25 June 1788 date really has absolutely no relevance as to when it is correct to start using ‘Virginia, USA.’

Summary:  The United States came into existence on July 4, 1776.    The states were not independent countries or territories agreeing to join the Union by ratifying the Constitution, they were agreeing that this would be the form of government of the Union which they were already a part of.  This is certainly shown by the fact that only 9 of 13 states were needed to ratify the Constitution for it to become the law of the land.  From the perspective of the United States, we became a separate and sovereign nation on 4 July 1776.  Virginia was of course part of this. There is nothing special about 25 June 1788 to suggest that it be used for any naming convention on wikitree.

There is absolutely no reason to choose any date other than July 4, 1776 for the birth of the United States, and the day Virginia became part of it.

Comments

wow. I've had the wrong end of the stick all this time then. I need to work on my communication skills, because when I volunteered to lead the Virginia project (post-USA) and was coordinating with pre-USA Southern Colony folks, I was told to use the June 25, 1788 date. And of course I cannot find a copy of the communication that gave me that guidance. I have already edited the Virginia project pages to show the July 4, 1776 date. I have been publicly and properly chastised, so I'll just offer my sincere apologies one more time & go lick my wounds for a while.

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Not chastised, Liz! You went to a lot of trouble to see how it would work!

Also, I know you must have noticed that there are entire posts about this that agree with the your position!  G2G posts can be like that!  

I applaud your energy and dedication!

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But Paula, the June 25, 1788 date was something that I thought had long ago been decided by the US Southern Colonies Project and that I was simply following established policy. I am mightily embarrassed and feel a lot foolish that I've been operating under the (false) assumption since I set up the Virginia Project in May 2016(!) that it was the decision of the US Southern Colonies Project to use June 25, 1788 as the date between pre- & post-USA Virginia. In all the proposed policy & its discussions, and in my exchanges with you and other pre-USA leaders before publicly posting said policy, I totally thought (wrongly) that I was accurately presenting the position of the US Southern Colonies Project - not to "see how it would work" but to provide clear guidance for the Clean-a-Thon. It would have been nice to have had my mistaken assumption corrected before I posted in G2G what I thought was simply clarification of established project (US Southern Colonies project) guidance. The Virginia Project - being post-USA - did not/does not need the clarification of what to call pre-USA Virginia, but the Virginia Spring Cleaners (Team Virginia) did. However, despite my misunderstanding, I'm pleased to report that Team Virginia corrected 5,457 database errors, placing 4th in the 2017 Clean-a-Thon.

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Liz, on the Southern Colonies Project page which Nae set up, there are colonies listed with date ranges which represent when the colonies were first settled until statehood. We have never used any of these dates for the purposes of location fields.

It looks like this and it refers to resource pages:

British

British Colonies Main Resource Page which encompasses the British Colonies along the Atlantic coast.

Carolina 1526 to 1729

North Carolina 1729 to November 21, 1789

South Carolina 1729 to May 23, 1788

Georgia to 1732 to January 2, 1788

Maryland to 1632 April 28, 1788

Virginia to 1607 to June 25, 1788

Jamestown, Virginia Colony Project Page

All I can tell you is that we use Name Colony until 1776 and State Name, USA after 1776. Other projects may not.  I suggest you check with some of them to see if there are other views or practices.  

Congratulations on your clean-a-thon results!!!!

 

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As do I

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I am sorry you feel you have wounds to lick. I saw nothing wrong with your designations

 

Michael

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Thanks Michael. I'm sure I'm just being overly sensitive, or just used the wrong phase. I'll get over it.

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Liz, I also don't think you need to apologize.  There was, and still is, a bit of confusion over the issue.  Even with all of the information discussed, we are not at 100% agreement.  It was good a debate to go through.

One of the things I like about genealogy is learning some history - I've learned a bit more over the past week.

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Hi everyone,

We have to keep in mind that we have a fantastically diverse community here, in terms of experience. If we start to make guidelines that require we reference a help page for every change we make for a region, I think we'll be making things too difficult, even for experienced genealogists!

The best approach is generally a simple approach, which might mention  the possibility of someone inputting a more detailed place name later. Trying to break down every name change for every state would make things so difficult, we'd have people stop trying.

If Liz has her Virginia folks look for the use of Virginia Colony and replace it with the time period appropriate name, they can, but at the same time, I, who have very little knowledge of Virginia name changes, would be just fine using Virginia Colony for my ancestor, Thomas McQuiston, who died there in 1750. Both names would be correct on the site.

The same goes for the United States usage after 1776. The date details are less important to the general user base here than a general agreement that anything before 1776 was definitely not part of the USA. Expecting users from other parts of the world to know exactly when USA became USA and each state joined is like expecting all US citizens to know the geographical changes and time periods for European countries, whose borders were terribly fluid for a very long time. And also that no one approves of British American Colonies. ;-)

Any decision has to keep in mind who will be making the edits involved and whether we're complicating things more than helping.

Maybe everyone should take a breather and reevaluate what the end goal is, how we'd get there, and whether making these recommendations is going to help or hurt the bigger picture of genealogical collaboration here.

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Thanks Abby for sharing a vision

>> The best approach is generally a simple approach

The problem is that genealogy is not simple or easy and that is what makes it fun... we are trying to describe a whole life of a person if we understand something then add it...... 

For me you can just use North America for all locations, but I guess then it's to simple for most people... 

What we have in the Swedish church books is just travelled to North America... but in Sweden I would like to have it correct....

My answer is good genealogy is fun and then you describe as exact as you can.... but its a nightmare to learn. Aleš tries to explain how to spell my grandfathers Serbian name and I dont get it

One view of the history....of States and Territories of the United States....

Big pic

Answer 1

To all those American Wikitreers who cannot, (or will not), agree on when their country became an entity in its own right - take a step back and consider how foolish you are looking in the eyes of the rest of the world. 

(Yes, there is life beyond the borders of the USA!)

As commented by Joe Cochoit  -  "It is not for wikitree to try and pick its own date separate from that recognized by the US Government."

Comments

If it were possible to give you three up votes for your comment I would. I guess best answer will have to do.

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Thank you Karen

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What, Peter?!! There is life beyond the borders of the United States?? How disconcerting!!  ; )

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Clearly, all good things begin on 4 July - ( I just noticed when you joined Wikitree.) -  Edie, I rest my case!

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There you go! Obviously I joined as a patriotic gesture,  Peter!

Answer 2

https://www.congress.gov/content/conan/pdf/GPO-CONAN-REV-2016.pdf

The above is from our US Supreme Court.  Please scroll down to page 17 and start reading...  

Well before the idea of State was adopted and used, Virginia was declared free and independent of England and the United States of America was officially proposed on June 2, the 4th was the ratification. The Constitution came later.  States came as an outgrowth of deciding how to define the government and its pieces.  

I would think the US Supreme Court has the best handle on this.  Enjoy the read!

Comments

Laura

 

The PDF file won't load?  O would love to read it

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Michael go a search engine and type in 

PDF]Constitution of the United States of America: Analysis, and Interpretation

https://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/GPO-CONAN-2013/pdf/GPO-CONAN-2013.pdf

1.  

Jul 31, 2013 - Online Version: www.gpo.gov/constitutionannotated ... Internet: bookstore.gpo.gov Phone: toll free (866) 512-1800; DC area (202) 512-1800.    

Or try the link again above.   

Answer 3

I agree with Joe, The first official document we have using the name United States of America was signed by a member of the Continental Congress from each of the 13 Original colonies and dated July 4, 1776. Also that is the date used by the government of the United States for all official celebrations and for citing the age of the country. For that reason the use of any other date as the start for using the term United States, for the 13 colonies would be an error.

Answer 4

Joe, I agree with you. Even if I did not, no other way will ever work. As a project leader of Southern Colonies, I cannot imagine members complying with a complicated system that doesn't accept the first 13 Colonies as part of the USA until their state ratification date. Our one rule is use their convention, not ours. We are trying to invent a distinction that didnt exist during thier time. At least I have not found any indication of that nor have I found a historian who believes one existed. On the other hand, already posted here are documents indicating otherwise.

Answer 5

I agree that the date of ratification of the Declaration of Independence by the 13 original states on July 4, 1776 should be the official origin of the USA and the 13 original states as states in the USA.

One alternative date would be much later when the Treaty ending the American Revolution in 1783 when the world recognized as an independent nation. Like I said, I prefer July 4, 1776.  John Hancock was president of the Continental Congress in 1776  and I believe George Washington was the president of the Continental Congress in 1783 although I might be mistaken on that.  The US Constitution didn't go into effect until later and George Washington was elected the first president of the United States in 1789.

Answer 6

As a historian, history major, etc, I totally agree with Joe - splitting hairs about dates to assign place names is just that - splitting hairs and insignificant. When other states join later out of the original 13, such as Maine from Massachusetts in 1820 or West Virginia from Virginia in 1861, THEN there's a difference - but they are all STILL state name, USA.

Answer 7

I completely agree, Joe.  We are talking about ratification of the articles of confederation and when the declaration was dated.  4 July 1776 is the date separator for USA -- when we declared to be a separate union.  Colonies for the original 13 states before hand.

Answer 8

I have been trying to stay out of this discussion because it seemed as if there were enough people involved already. However, I have to say that I agree with you, Joe. I am in favor of the KISS principle and I think using the July 4 date is the simplest way of distinguishing between a group of colonies and the United States.

 It is difficult enough keeping track of all the names used by the colonies over the years before 1776. I still haven't worked that one out. It just seems silly to add still another complication and a chance for errors to be made.

It should also be pointed out that most of our new members, unfortunately, do not follow the discussions on G2G. They are more likely to use July 4, 1776 as the cutoff date.

Whatever the consensus eventually arrived at, it should be made easily available to all members.

Answer 9

I agree with Joe.. I'm Canadian and learnt in history classes that the US was "officially born" on 4 july 1776. And most people from other countries recognize that date as well. To me, you signed your declaration on that day, that's the date that should be remembered and is remembered by most people. Those other dates mentioned? I have never heard of them! :P That's my 2 cents (American ones, they have more value! LOL)

Answer 10

Actually, you're both right.  Looking at it from the point of view of the United States, the date is 4 July 1776, but from Virginia's point of view, they actually voted to ratify on 25 June 1788.

For our purposes, I agree we should keep it simple and use 4 July 1776. 

Check out the History of Massachusetts Category Page - nine different names between 1686 and 1780!  According to this page (wishing there were references), they became the Commonwealth in 1780, but ratified in 1788.  So again, those two dates are different, and neither are 1776.  

Bottom line - what will be labeled an "error"?  Let's not call "Virginia, United States" an error between 1776 and 1788 - OK?  I think as long as we don't do that, we'll be OK.  Thank you to everyone for your hard work!

Answer 11

Here is some gasoline added to the fire. Neither Virginia, nor Massachusetts are states, and they never have been. Both are Commonwealths. Now on to the question. For the Clean-A-Thon, and any other corrections, July 4, 1776 was used as the beginning date for the use of USA, United States, or United States of America. If the date used is date of statehood, then it is 1959 for Alaska.

Comments

They are states that use the term commonwealth in their official name.  I say it like this because there is absolutely no difference between the 46 states and the 4 commonwealths.  We don't say that the US has 46 states, we say it has 50.  Commonwealth is essentially an old term which was meant to convey that it had a "government based on the common consent of the people."  It is really splitting hairs to try and differentiate the 46 states from the 4 commonwealths - they are just names.

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Bob, as far as any state other than the original 13 you do need to use a start date other than 1776 and they range all over the place but other than that I agree with Joe, lets not start with the commonwealth discussion, in the United State they are referred to as states just like the other 46.

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Yes, both are states. Yes, Commonwealth is the title, not a replacement for State. And, yes, this discussion is in an endless loop. The United States of America was born on July 4, 1776, not when former colonies ratified the Constitution. I hope my answer pointed out the futility of the discussion. It has hinged on technicalities, not common sense. Remember, KISS.

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Actually, Joe, it's a trick question, or was at on time, on the Legal portion of the Illinois Land Surveyors exam. There are 46 States and 4 Commonwealths. An obscure technicality to be sure, but that is sometimes the way of the world in Land Surveying.

Answer 12

There are some important points to clarify here:

1.  Congress actually established de facto independence (as recognized by John Adams and present-day historians) on May 15.  (I actually wrote a master's thesis about the Declaration of Independence being properly understood in terms of the May resolution.)  The July 2 resolution and the accompanying July 4 Declaration formally announced the separation, but did NOT create a formal union, which came later with the Articles of Confederation.  (The Continental Army in 1776 can be compared to NATO's military force today.)

2.  The Declaration of Independence referred to the "united" (not United) States of America:  thirteen separate States were united in an alliance.  

3.  The United States of America, before the Civil War, was universally described as a UNION -- not a nation.

4.  These days, the phrase "United States of America" refers to the union of the 50 States, while the phrase "United States" refers to property and territories under the control of the federal government.

Comments

John, I think this is focusing on the minutia of the process that created a new nation out of nothing, and misses the big picture.  

Yes, on May 15 Congress passed a resolution calling on the colonies to separate from Great Britain.  Yes, on July 2 Congress passed the Lee Resolution stating their independence from Great Britain.  Yes, on July 4 Congress adopted the Declaration of independence.  Yes, the Declaration of Independence was not signed until August 2.  Yes, the Articles of Confederation were not adopted until 15 November 1777.  Yes, the Articles of Confederation were not adopted until 1 March 1781.  Yes, the United States Constitution was not ratified until 21 November 1788.  Yes the US Constitution did not go into effect until 4 March 1789.

None of this matters.  We hold the birth of the United States to be 4 July 1776.  It is the day we celebrate as the birth of the United States, it.  It is the officially holiday, and the date we use when we say how old the United States is.  It is not for wikitree to try and pick its own date separate from that recognized by the US Government.

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I don't object to making the change you recommend.

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I believe this issue is resolved - I spoke with the DB Errors project about this and they will consider EITHER using or NOT using "USA" or "United States" or "United States of America" as NOT AN ERROR for the period 1776 to 1789 (when Constitution took effect)

Not using one of these 3 terms becomes an Error AFTER 1789.

For "new states" after the original 14 (incl. Vermont), one should use Territory (look up the name in Wikipedia) until the year in which that area became a State.  And use USA or United States etc. after the Territory name.

Hopefully we can go forwards now (while always looking over our shoulders to be sure no one is still chasing us!).

 

Chet Snow

Answer 13

 

 

 

Slight correction: Right at the beginning, the Declaration  says:

“The unanimous Declaration of the thirteen United States of America,”

Comment: One country cannot be unanimous; 13 separate states can.

Also, notice that In the body of the Declaration, Jefferson did not use the phrase United States of America; he did use the phrase "united States of America"

In the Declaration Jefferson repeatedly refers to states & never uses the term to refer to a single country: He is simply saying that these thirteen states are united in declaring their independence from Britain; he says nothing about their being united into a single country/nation: >

“We, therefore, the Representatives of the united States of America, in General Congress, Assembled, . . .  and by Authority of the good People of these Colonies [plural], solemnly publish and declare, That these united Colonies are, and of Right ought to be Free and Independent States; that they are Absolved from all Allegiance to the British Crown, and that all political connection between them and the State of Great Britain, is and ought to be totally dissolved; and that as Free and Independent States, they have full Power to levy War, conclude Peace, contract Alliances, establish Commerce, and to do all other Acts and Things which Independent States may of right do. And for the support of this Declaration, with a firm reliance on the protection of divine Providence, we mutually pledge to each other our Lives, our Fortunes and our sacred Honor.”

Pat

Answer 14

hmm. So, where is the guidance stated to use Virginia Colony or Colony of Virginia instead of British Colonial America? (I just corrected a "BCA" that had recently been corrected from USA & realized I had no URL to offer the PM as to why I made that change.

Thanks!

Answer 15

I'd like to ask what you would propose for Vermont, in timeline fashion.

Comments

Vermont has a messy history in the time frame we are talking about.  Vermont was never a colony but a territory or region that included land in New Hampshire and in New York. 

It was a territory without clear boundaries originally claimed by France.  Following the French and Indian War (1754-1763), the territory was ceded to the British Empire.  The land, again without defined borders, was claimed by both the colonies of New Hampshire and New York.  When the American Revolution broke out and the colonies declared their independence, Vermont was not considered a separate colony.  Vermont was also not given separate recognition or any representation in the Continental Congress or the Confederation Congress.

In January 1777, the representatives of the towns of Vermont declared their Independence not just from Great Britain but also from the State of New York.  New York still considered Vermont to still be a part of their state.  It is often said that this formed the Vermont Republic, though I am not completely sure you can say they were completely separate from New York at the time.  They did write their own constitution which held it to be separate from New York, minted their own coins, and ran their own postal service.  In March 1790, the New York legislature agreed to allow Vermont statehood as long as certain conditions (cash payment) was made.  On 6 January 1791, the Vermont legislature met and approved a resolution to seek statehood

Vermont was admitted as the 14th state to the United States by an act of Congress as prescribed by the US Constitution on 4 March 1791.  This date is clear.

For simplicity, I am not sure wikitree should recognize the Vermont Republic (1777-1791) as a separate entity.  I prefer to think of the state as carved out of New Hampshire and New York.

To answer your question directly:

• Vermont, New France: (1666-1763)
• New York, British Empire:  1763- 3 July 1776
• New York, USA: 4 July 1776 - 4 March 1791  
• Vermont, USA: 4 March 1791 to present

The date of statehood for Vermont, USA is clear cut as I noted by an act of Congress.  I am certainly willing to hear other suggestions for before 4 March 1791.  What I have above already looks too complicated, and I would prefer to make it simpler rather than more complicated (following the KISS principle).